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Boro v Wigan (A) 2-2 (Wing 2)

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I wouldn't be delighted if he was sacked at all. Where do we go from here if we were to be sacking Woodgate tomorrow? I know some don't like or care for him being in charge but I just don't see what positive is in sacking the manager right now.

Like, I could see the mental drain Pulis had on fans last season that really drove home why people wanted him gone. And you could feel the relief when it was finally confirmed. Yet regardless of the criticism that Woodgate has faced throughout this season, this does not feel like a point at which sacking the manager bears any positivity at all. I wouldn't see it as a potential for anything great to happen, I wouldn't see any light round the corner, we wouldn't be out pulling in a significantly better coach than him and honestly I can see things going even further backwards were we to make a change now.

He hasn't lost the dressing room by any account I've heard, they're all pulling in the same direction and it's not quite coming together as a unit. I'd rather that and the rookie in charge getting more time to work on his team than sack him off, upset the apple cart and potentially see us dropping even further down as a result.

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We'd hopefully appoint a decent manager or head coach with the ability to succeed here I suppose.  I don't think Woodgate has demonstrated even slightly that he is that person and that's with people seemingly determined to see positives in anything that happens here, whether it's down to him or not.  This squad isn't an 18th place in the Championship squad in my opinion so why are there and why can't is it so much of a struggle to get a decent game out of us?  I couldn't care less about the dressing room.  If what we're seeing now is a dressing room that's all pulling in the same direction then we're an even bigger shambles than it appears.  This is everyone all trying their hardest for the manager?  Christ, I can't even imagine how bad we'd be if that wasn't the case then.  Woodgate didn't deserve the job to begin with, he's done nothing to justify his appointment, so yeah I'd be more than happy for him to go tomorrow.  There is no reason to keep him other than he's already here.

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

We'd hopefully appoint a decent manager or head coach with the ability to succeed here I suppose.  

I mean Woodgate got the job despite being whatever he is, what could possibly lead you to believe we'll hire someone significantly more capable than he is? Because that's surely what we need to have this squad performing at the level it should be this season. I imagine the most talented manager we have any hope of hiring right now is Aitor Karanka, make of that what you will.

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1 hour ago, TLF10 said:

Woody confirmed that Fry picked up a thigh injury towards the end and a case of wait and see for Saturday. He did confirm Shotton and Friend are available though. 

I think Friend needs to come in to give us a left sides centre back on Saturday. And some experience in the middle. 

Makoudi saved us so many times tonight that the own goal is forgiveable. He's starting to do charging runs from the back - one just before our 2nd goal. He looks unstoppable when he does that. 

Morrison obviously a very good player. Britt seemed very rusty.

I wonder how much the wind impacted things. We were pretty awful but seemed not able to do the basics.

Need to be much better on Saturday. We need that one win at the moment

 

 

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Just got back from game; that was appalling.

First, half their fullbacks played really high and the press us high without the ball. We struggled to cope with that and made mistakes.  Second half we were better, and had plenty of possession, but it was recycled through central midfield far too slowly. I lost count of the number of times Howson and Coulson were hugging the touchline, unmarked in advanced positions. Hands on hips waiting, by the time the ball finally arrived, it was lobbed, or lazily rolled to them and the space was gone.

 

Anyway, marks:

 

Pears 6 - first goals was through Fry(?) legs and into the far corner, tough to save that one.  Second rocketed in off the bar before he had the chance to move

Howson 7 - had their LB numerous times won lots of corners, was steady and a danger

Coulson 5 - Didn't get forward enough, although partly not his fault. Fry seems to play it to him a yard behind instead of a yard in front. This forces him to check, then he has no option but the easy ball back

Fry 4 - Poor game, looked like Bambi on ice

Moukoudi 6 - Two errors, nearly sent off, then the own goal, an absolute clanger, didn't sort his feet out. Other than that he looked very decent.

Saville 6 - Tidy but took too long pinging the balls out wide.

Wing 5 - I know some people will say he scored two goals. However it was a massive lucky deflection, and a massive GK error. He really didn't get involved enough.

McNair 5 - poor game, was sluggish in possession, always moving backwards, never really got to grips with the midfield battle

Ravel 5 (somewhere between 3 and 7) - Terrible first 20 mins, didn't look a footballer at all, then he started to get on the ball and ping it about. He was the one midfielder that was using the width and finding the FBs, particularly Howson.  But out of possession, Jeez he was lazy, scared to tackle, and not even pressuring the ball.

Britt 4 - won two headers, fell over and avoided going near the ball before getting the hook

Fletcher 4 - Worst game for a very long time, their CB Kipre bullied both our forwards, but particularly Fletcher.

Nmecha 5 - decent enough movement, and effort but barely any decent ball to work with

Tavernier - 4 -Didn't get attuned to the pace of the game, got robbed of the ball and gave it away cheaply. The opposite of what he was brought on to do

Spence 6 - steady but wasn't on long enough

 

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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

I wouldn't be delighted if he was sacked at all. Where do we go from here if we were to be sacking Woodgate tomorrow? I know some don't like or care for him being in charge but I just don't see what positive is in sacking the manager right now.

Like, I could see the mental drain Pulis had on fans last season that really drove home why people wanted him gone. And you could feel the relief when it was finally confirmed. Yet regardless of the criticism that Woodgate has faced throughout this season, this does not feel like a point at which sacking the manager bears any positivity at all. I wouldn't see it as a potential for anything great to happen, I wouldn't see any light round the corner, we wouldn't be out pulling in a significantly better coach than him and honestly I can see things going even further backwards were we to make a change now.

He hasn't lost the dressing room by any account I've heard, they're all pulling in the same direction and it's not quite coming together as a unit. I'd rather that and the rookie in charge getting more time to work on his team than sack him off, upset the apple cart and potentially see us dropping even further down as a result.

Agree with everything you said. I do seem to remember an itk on here claiming he’d had an outburst in October that lost the dressing room. 

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6 hours ago, Changing Times said:

We'd hopefully appoint a decent manager or head coach with the ability to succeed here I suppose.  I don't think Woodgate has demonstrated even slightly that he is that person and that's with people seemingly determined to see positives in anything that happens here, whether it's down to him or not.  This squad isn't an 18th place in the Championship squad in my opinion so why are there and why can't is it so much of a struggle to get a decent game out of us?  I couldn't care less about the dressing room.  If what we're seeing now is a dressing room that's all pulling in the same direction then we're an even bigger shambles than it appears.  This is everyone all trying their hardest for the manager?  Christ, I can't even imagine how bad we'd be if that wasn't the case then.  Woodgate didn't deserve the job to begin with, he's done nothing to justify his appointment, so yeah I'd be more than happy for him to go tomorrow.  There is no reason to keep him other than he's already here.

Yeah I totally agree with that.

I'm not posting much lately because I don't want to be the person who is the eternal pessimist, but I just don't see how things are really improving that much. 

I think we have some fans that are so desperate to find positives and that leads to a narrative that we are a club moving in the right direction. Just because it's not Pulis it doesn't mean it was the right appointment.   

We were very poor up until Christmas and we really haven't been that good since. There was a purple patch in the middle where we got 4 good wins but that is starting to look like an anomaly. In those 4 games we stunk the place out against Stoke for 70 mins and ground out a win against Huddersfield. The 2 away wins against WBA and Preston were excellent but you wonder whether we just caught those 2 on off days. 

We'll probably win on Saturday and scrape enough points this season to stay up but I don't expect anything other than more of the same next season under Woodgate. To be honest I think Gibson will probably accept 3 seasons of this if it balances the books. I won't be paying £500 a season to watch it though. 

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I think Woodgate needs to stop changing formations and players quite so much. I’m pretty sure our only good run this season came with pretty much the same 11 each game. We can’t just keep picking the same 11 obviously, but let’s settle on a formation and try to build for next season because at the moment it reminds me a bit of when Monk was here, just no clear pattern or style of play. It’s almost like we are still in preseason or early season trying to find our feet but it’s mid Feb! 

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Our best results have come with the wingback formation.

If everybody was fit to play I would like to see this team 

                      Stojanovic

       Howson/fry, Ayala, Moukoudi

Spence,                                      Coulson
        Paddy/Saville, Tavernier/Wing

              Roberts,      Morrison
                Fletcher/Nmecha

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We were playing 3 at the back well before Spence played a game.

Our worst results have also come with the wingback formation, it's not a magic bullet.

Yesterday was the first game where we've played a back 4 since West Brom (a game we won), and we hadn't won in 5 league games whilst playing 3 at the back. Spence played in 4 of those games.

Edited by TeaCider24
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But I think it's clear now that we don't have the players to play a narrow midfield, and wingbacks at least provided a bit of width in attack, so I think we'll see them both start against Luton.

I think last night was more a case of our midfield being largely terrible than us desperately missing Spence. Despite Wing scoring twice, I'd say Saville was the only one who had a good overall game.

Edited by TeaCider24
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Wing & Paddy were poor all game, wings two goals completely hide the fact he was poor all game in possession. No midfield drive and poor decision making with slow passing when the ball need to switched at space.

Fry was poor as he doesn’t have a left foot so he’s always going to be playing the ball slightly behind the left back.

 

Woodgate got it wrong last night and two lucky goals completely papered over the cracks of how poor we are. We are certainly in a relegation battle! 

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People talk about woodgate as if he’s the only manager who wants to play the sort of football the club we’re talking about in the summer. There will be many experienced managers who like the same style as Woodgate but would be able to implement it much better.
 

Let’s be honest, he’s taken us to real relegation candidates a season after finishing 7th. And it certainly is nowhere near a relegation level squad. Can’t even imagine how much stick any other Boro manager would’ve got had we been in the same position. 

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23 minutes ago, DevKWat said:

Can’t even imagine how much stick any other Boro manager would’ve got had we been in the same position. 

And therein lies the point...

We’re in book balancing mode for the foreseeable. Mowbray v2.0.

Yes, a better/more experienced manager could get us higher up the table, but not top two or winning the playoffs with our unbalanced squad.

Hopefully by the summer this ‘clear out’ project will nearly be done and we can look forward to rebuilding.

Soon we’ll be able to attract a talented manager by offering a decent transfer budget.

In the meantime it’s going to be rough.

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