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Relegation Battle


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Right then, first of all to address borodane referring to a ‘Middle Eastern despot’. I’m going to assume that’s a reference to Man City’s owners. They are morally repulsive, and if I was a Man City fa

Hope not considering your user name. 😬🤣🤣

Blackburn got relegated with 51 points the season we were in the Prem. 4 of the last 5 seasons, 42 points has been enough. Comparing both 16/17, 18/19 and this season after ~32 games, the bottom

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9 minutes ago, Borodane said:

I always want a win and a win tonight would be really helpfull. And then he can sack Woodgate. I don't want Warnock but if it's a choice of keeping Woodgate or sacking him and hiring Warnock for the remainder of the season I'd reluctantly take Warnock. But not for next season. We've just gotten rid of Pulis. I just want someone with a bit of experience.

But what if Warnock stays for next season too?

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13 minutes ago, ManBearPig said:

If we beat leeds then fair play to Woodgate. Give him another chance against Forest to do the same. 

I think fans genuinely want him to turn it around. 

But if he cant in the next two games, and nothing changes. I'd find it very hard to get behind us for league one. 

Not because I'm supporting a different team, but because its accepted that we wouldnt change and stop the drop.

Win tonight Woody, I dare you. Prove me wrong. 

You see, this I can't agree with.  Either he's the man for the job or he isn't.  A win tonight shouldn't make a difference either way.  If we lose tonight then he's not the man for the job but if we win tonight then he is the man for the job?  That just doesn't make any sense to me at all as it's one game and it can't be that important on it's own.  Say we win the next two but then lose the following two, is he getting sacked or does winning these next two games guarantee his job for the foreseeable future for some reason?  If Gibson genuinely believes that he's the right man for the job then he should stick with him no matter what happens tonight or against Forest.  If he doesn't then he should be gone no matter what.  This is what Gibson has done in the past, waited for one result to go our way so that in his mind he doesn't have to take action.  If you've reached the point where you are thinking like that then really the decision has already been made and you are just trying to find reasons to delay or avoid it.

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40 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

But what if Warnock stays for next season too?

I wouldn't want him to. I'd like to be a bit more bold, but not insanely stupid like handing the reigns to someone completely inexperienced like Woodgate. Something inbetween shouldn't be impossible to find. If it's true that there will be funds available in the summer (if we stay up) then we should still be a relatively attractive job. Decent youngsters in the squad and plenty of high earners off the wagebill. For someone new there is every chance to build something decent. That said if Warnock came in and won the final 10 games it would be hard to turn him down🤣

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If it was Warnock I think it would be until the end of the Season and then reassess. If its a straight choice between Woodgate in League One next season or Warnock in the Championship next season then thats not a difficult decision to make. Football is a results game, it is instant in its nature, all about the here and now. Long term planning is essential but it needs to be evolution not revolution and with that in mind perhaps an Adkins type is more suitable than Warnock but if Warnock kept us up we can look at that and plan in the summer accordingly. Staying in the Championship has to be the number one and only consideration at the moment and nothing else, anything other than that is an unwelcome distraction, focus on the task in hand util we reach safety.

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38 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

A win tonight shouldn't make a difference either way.  If we lose tonight then he's not the man for the job but if we win tonight then he is the man for the job? 

I think there has to a cut off point for a chairman, he obviously thought JW was the right appointment at the time but if we keep losing then eventually they'll be a point where Gibson's mind is fully changed. 

That might not be tonight but at some point he might have to make a decision on whether we're moving in the right direction or not. 

I think the argument about taking it a result at a time is that ideally Gibson would want us to scrape enough points with Woodgate in charge then he doesn't have to make a decision. Sacking Woodgate will be damaging to his ego and the clubs finances. A win tonight will allow SG to bury his head in the sand for another 5 days. 

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16 hours ago, ManBearPig said:

If it means he goes, I'd rather we lose to Leeds.

I'd be surprised if we didnt and it would be poetic for Leeds to be the final nail in his coffin. 

I dont get how we would suddenly beat Leeds who need wins and then go and beat Forest who are also needing wins. No dead rubber games where you might think we could out fight a team.

If there was a block button on here I would use it, For this Post alone,And who do you think is going to come in and change anything Warnock? McClaren, Mourino, Karanka,

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1 minute ago, Duvel said:

I think there has to a cut off point for a chairman, he obviously thought JW was the right appointment at the time but if we keep losing then eventually they'll be a point where Gibson's mind is fully changed. 

That might not be tonight but at some point he might have to make a decision on whether we're moving in the right direction or not. 

I think the argument about taking it a result at a time is that ideally Gibson would want us to scrape enough points with Woodgate in charge then he doesn't have to make a decision. Sacking Woodgate will be damaging to his ego and the clubs finances. A win tonight will allow SG to bury his head in the sand for another 5 days. 

Of course there has to be a cut off point but a game against the side who are second in the league doesn't seem to be appropriate to me.  And as I said, if we win a couple and then lose a couple are we really any further on?  Burying his head in the sand is about right I'd say.

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13 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

If it was Warnock I think it would be until the end of the Season and then reassess. If its a straight choice between Woodgate in League One next season or Warnock in the Championship next season then thats not a difficult decision to make. Football is a results game, it is instant in its nature, all about the here and now. Long term planning is essential but it needs to be evolution not revolution and with that in mind perhaps an Adkins type is more suitable than Warnock but if Warnock kept us up we can look at that and plan in the summer accordingly. Staying in the Championship has to be the number one and only consideration at the moment and nothing else, anything other than that is an unwelcome distraction, focus on the task in hand util we reach safety.

I think it was very clear for the 1,5 years under Pulis it isn't just a results game. It's much more than that and we should strive to find that. It's possible to get results and be a bit entertaining. Look at WBA, Brentford, Fulham and Leeds.

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Just now, Changing Times said:

Of course there has to be a cut off point but a game against the side who are second in the league doesn't seem to be appropriate to me.  And as I said, if we win a couple and then lose a couple are we really any further on?  Burying his head in the sand is about right I'd say.

I suppose it's all about the nature of tonight's performance and the crowds reaction. 

If we are 0-4 down at half time and the ground is emptying then I think it's going to ramp up the pressure on both chairman and manager. A plucky 0-1 where we give a good account of ourselves might give everyone a bit of hope again. 

I actually think the reaction of the fans could determine Woodgate's fate as much as the results in the next 2 home games. I think Gibson cares a lot about his public image and if he feels like the fans are turning then this could be the catalyst for change. 

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I don't personally see why anyone thinks it would be until the end of the season and not beyond, I don't think that would suit him and that's now how it worked out for Pulis. The last and only time we've hired someone until the end of the season under my time as a Boro fan, it was Agnew, it was an appointment from within, not external. It represents even shorter term thinking than we're used to and no commitment to the nicer football the club wants to deliver so the potential for them to stay longer is a bit devastating if you want anything more than results driven football; so many of you on here couldn't wait to get shot of that before!

So if it would be until the end of the season whether he keeps us up or not then sure I can see why some would want that but if it's not and you don't want Warnock beyond the end of the season, you're probably not gonna be much, if at all happier with Woodgate out the door so I don't understand why anyone of that mindset would be so gung-ho towards it. Each to their own, of course, just doesn't compute for me.

Don't get me wrong, I also don't want to see us go down but I absolutely don't want to see us turn into a club that jumps ship on appointments every time the going gets really tough, we'll go through as many managers as the Mackems did and burn a lot of money along the way, we'll perpetually be battling relegation rather than tackling the underlying causes and at some point, the bubble will burst and we'll drop like flies and never get back. There's nothing positive about the annual positivity provided by a new manager just for the sake of staying up.

To summarise; if Woodgate needs to go, we need to get the next manager right correct from the off, we don't need someone til the end of the season, we need the right man for the future now. Warnock or McClaren in my eyes do not represent the right man for the long-term future and yet I believe if they come in, the intention will be to keep them here beyond this season. So no, no Warnock or McClaren for me.

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3 minutes ago, Borodane said:

I think it was very clear for the 1,5 years under Pulis it isn't just a results game. It's much more than that and we should strive to find that. It's possible to get results and be a bit entertaining. Look at WBA, Brentford, Fulham and Leeds.

They have all gone through Managers in a relatively short space of time. Karanka was successful in winning promotion despite being dour to watch. Everyone wants to be like Klopp's Liverpool but in truth I didn't hear Arsenal fans complaining about Wenger's boring Arsenal going undefeated all season. The manner of winning is important but nowhere near as important as the manner of losing. Pulis didn't win, he bored us and made some very poor and crucially self inflicting decisions which cost us and him. Jack Charlton wasn't exactly lauded at the time for his style of football but here we are over 45 years later and he is still remembered along with the identity of the white band.

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8 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

if we win a couple and then lose a couple are we really any further on?

If we got those types of results then I think it'll move us away from the bottom 3 slightly. I don't think we'll be any further on as a club but I think it would be enough to keep JW in a job. 

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9 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

They have all gone through Managers in a relatively short space of time. Karanka was successful in winning promotion despite being dour to watch. Everyone wants to be like Klopp's Liverpool but in truth I didn't hear Arsenal fans complaining about Wenger's boring Arsenal going undefeated all season. The manner of winning is important but nowhere near as important as the manner of losing. Pulis didn't win, he bored us and made some very poor and crucially self inflicting decisions which cost us and him. Jack Charlton wasn't exactly lauded at the time for his style of football but here we are over 45 years later and he is still remembered along with the identity of the white band.

Come on Arsenal were far from boring at that time. It was only in his final few seasons they started to be boring and there were plenty of fans who wanted him to stop years before he did.

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