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Relegation Battle

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16 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

It's not that I don't want us to stay up, I do. But staying up whilst never dealing with the underlying issues that put us in this position in the first place is simply not good enough. And that's what I think hiring any of those managers does.

I'm not gonna say we'd come straight back up as I don't think we would either. But the long-term future of the club and it's future success is no more guaranteed by being in this division vs. not being in it.

So how do the club deal with the underlying issues? 

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8 minutes ago, Duvel said:

So how do the club deal with the underlying issues? 

I proper system for accountability from top to bottom, personally Stocks and pillory’s set up in front of the old ground gates might make many folk change their ways. 😇 

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22 minutes ago, Duvel said:

So how do the club deal with the underlying issues? 

I've said that hiring one of those managers doesn't deal with it, it only perpetuates it. So rather than panicking into signing anyone with a reputation of just keeping teams up if and when Woodgate departs, the club should be sounding out long term managerial solutions that deliver the kind of football they say they want and are pragmatic enough to keep us up in the short term. If we're to accept this squad is much better than the position it's in, that shouldn't be a job that requires a Warnock or a Pulis. The rest of it we've gone over in length on this forum, director of football sits somewhere high in the priority list to modernise the football philosophy within the club.

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3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I've said that hiring one of those managers doesn't deal with it, it only perpetuates it. So rather than panicking into signing anyone with a reputation of just keeping teams up if and when Woodgate departs, the club should be sounding out long term managerial solutions that deliver the kind of football they say they want and are pragmatic enough to keep us up in the short term. If we're to accept this squad is much better than the position it's in, that shouldn't be a job that requires a Warnock or a Pulis. The rest of it we've gone over in length on this forum, director of football sits somewhere high in the priority list to modernise the football philosophy within the club.

Well the best of luck with finding a manager and a director of football that are long term managerial solutions. You need someone with the nous to implement it in the first place.

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Removing the "give jobs to family and friends" is a really good place to start. Hire people who know the job, and how to succeed in it. 

 

Granted a rookie manager of any level is a gamble but there were "apparently" options before we appointed woodgate. High earners like Jokanovic or lesser known managers from lower leagues like stendel or cowley. I honestly don't think we are sitting in the relegation zone with any of those managers at the helm. 

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The more we talk about this do others feel, like I am beginning to, is it really down to just personalities between players and management.

If so no wonder we seem to be on a losing battle.

Just asking

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For me, it's by looking for a manager who is willing to give youth a chance and develop them into talents who can play a part in the first team and eventually find bigger moves elsewhere. That's got to be the model right now with our financial situation as in.

Mark Robbins has done a phenomenal job with Coventry on a shoestring budget and with a solid stream of academy products coming through. Has the potential to be taking them to the Championship this season though. There's managers out there who have done more with less than we have.

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I agree with all the posts above, what I'm getting at is do we trust that Gibson can do all those things? 

Is he prepared to hand over some control to a director of football? Can be trusted to find a competent DOF or new manager? Is he ever gonna move away from the jobs for the boys mentality? 

I'd say probably no to all those questions and if that's the case we probably need a new owner if we're ever going to move forward. 

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The one saving grace is if and it's a big if, we do manage to survive is that I honestly do think the standard of the championship is pretty poor. We have only really been soundly beaten on a couple of occasions this year and there hasnt really been any standout teams.

I dont think we need massive changes with regards the squad as there is quality there but clearly they arent playing for Woodgate. I would love Woodgate to turn it around and prove everyone wrong but it's not looking like a likely outcome. If Woodgate is sacked/resigns we really need somebody like Kenyon to look after the recruitment of the next manager. Norwich are a good team to look to. At the start of last season they were looking more of a relegation threatened than promotion challenging team but got they got their off field recruitment spot on. Despite looking likely to go down, they are in such a healthy place financially and by the sounds of it Farke is still very popular. I can see them going straight back up.

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11 minutes ago, smogsterking the Inspirati said:

The one saving grace is if and it's a big if, we do manage to survive is that I honestly do think the standard of the championship is pretty poor. We have only really been soundly beaten on a couple of occasions this year and there hasnt really been any standout teams.

I dont think we need massive changes with regards the squad as there is quality there but clearly they arent playing for Woodgate. I would love Woodgate to turn it around and prove everyone wrong but it's not looking like a likely outcome. If Woodgate is sacked/resigns we really need somebody like Kenyon to look after the recruitment of the next manager. Norwich are a good team to look to. At the start of last season they were looking more of a relegation threatened than promotion challenging team but got they got their off field recruitment spot on. Despite looking likely to go down, they are in such a healthy place financially and by the sounds of it Farke is still very popular. I can see them going straight back up.

They brought in someone to oversee their recruitment which seemed to turn their fortunes around. We've got Gibson, Bausor and Gill who seem to be failing season after season. 

We need more than just a good manager, the problems are more deep rooted than that. 

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Just watching Cov v Sund. The quality is really poor isn’t it. 🤦‍♂️  The big problem we will have is ( probably what Sunderland have had ) teams seeing us as there cup final. Premier league facilities etc. We will the big scalp in the league. We will need a strong mentality throughout the squad. 

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52 minutes ago, smogsterking the Inspirati said:

The one saving grace is if and it's a big if, we do manage to survive is that I honestly do think the standard of the championship is pretty poor. We have only really been soundly beaten on a couple of occasions this year and there hasnt really been any standout teams.

I dont think we need massive changes with regards the squad as there is quality there but clearly they arent playing for Woodgate. I would love Woodgate to turn it around and prove everyone wrong but it's not looking like a likely outcome. If Woodgate is sacked/resigns we really need somebody like Kenyon to look after the recruitment of the next manager. Norwich are a good team to look to. At the start of last season they were looking more of a relegation threatened than promotion challenging team but got they got their off field recruitment spot on. Despite looking likely to go down, they are in such a healthy place financially and by the sounds of it Farke is still very popular. I can see them going straight back up.

I dunno. I think major changes are needed.

First off, with regard to the squad, we need a decent defence. Only decent CB we have is Ayala. The rest are all pretty suspect. Probably need new full backs too, (depending on the formations we play).

We've got more midfielders than we know what to do with, so probably okay there. Could do with a new striker - someone to partner Fletcher, with Britt looking pretty disinterested & Gestede on his way out.

 

Next (and by far MOST IMPORTANTLY!) we need decent coaches...not the shower of garbage we've had for the last few years. As I've said repeatedly, I don't know what they do in training, but judging from the performances on the pitch, they just doss around, playing PES, or checking their social media accounts.

Obviously we need a new manager...one with a clear idea of what kind of football he wants to play, knows what kind of players he wants and who can also direct the coaches to ensure the right kind of training sessions are implemented. DoF might also help with the recruitment side of things.

 

Of course, none of this is going to happen while Gibson remains in charge, so last, but by no means least...we need a new chairman.

 

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8 minutes ago, Stevoboro said:

Just watching Cov v Sund. The quality is really poor isn’t it. 🤦‍♂️  The big problem we will have is ( probably what Sunderland have had ) teams seeing us as there cup final. Premier league facilities etc. We will the big scalp in the league. We will need a strong mentality throughout the squad. 

Thats us screwed then. ☹️

Along with our lack of physicality, technique and decision-making, our other main weakness is that we rarely seem up for games lately.

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2 hours ago, thatoldchestnut said:

Well the best of luck with finding a manager and a director of football that are long term managerial solutions. You need someone with the nous to implement it in the first place.

Perhaps unrealistically, the manager/head coach should receive a pretty significant recommendation from the Director of Football. Ideally, they would be in place before a manager even got the job. It doesn't tend to happen but they should also really be taking the brunt of the criticism for a football club whose football philosophy is not going in the right direction and taking a great deal of credit when it does. At our club, that is distributed around the chairman, the CEO and the manager and none of them have a sodding clue what a good director of football should be doing whilst they do their own duties too.

Appreciate that Gibson needs to accept that we need to go down that route and his best mate Pulis despises the idea of it but I'm not answering the question of what will happen as I feel we all have a good idea of what will probably happen, what needs to happen is a different kettle of fish.

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Karanka or Mowbray DoF for me. Obviously there will be unknown options out there I haven’t really researched them all!

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