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Relegation Battle

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17 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

That's because, unlike say Patrick Roberts or Ravel Morrison, we didn't have a sodding clue who he was!

Literally not true. Most of us knew he'd been highly rated at City, last year had a decent time at Preston but struggled at Wolfsburg. He looked an ideal signing.

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12 hours ago, BoroMart said:

the table lies until the 46 games are completed. The fact we have done badly over the last 8 games is only of certain relevance, it doesn't mean that it will continue on a downward trend. Fact is we have had terrible injury issues this year, we can't seem to get our best team out, or even a better team out for a run of matches. IF we get our best XI out, we will pull away from trouble.

The table doesn't really lie until 46 games are completed.  It gives a perfectly accurate view of how the season has gone up until that point in time.  We haven't had terrible injury issues this year.  We lost a couple of players who play in the same position and that caused us some problems because of our lack of depth.  We were terrible before those injuries occurred though, so making them responsible is misguided at best.  I think if we can be competent for the remaining 10 games then we can get out of trouble because this division is weak - the supposed good teams aren't that good at all as we saw on Monday night.  But if we're more like we were in the games against Wigan, Luton and Barnsley...😨

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1 hour ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

I just don't see how we will suddenly improve to get results. Points deductions may be our only hope.

I'm sure we were saying that during November and Wigan and Barnsley were saying that in January.  Form is temporary

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9 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

The table doesn't really lie until 46 games are completed.  It gives a perfectly accurate view of how the season has gone up until that point in time.  We haven't had terrible injury issues this year.  We lost a couple of players who play in the same position and that caused us some problems because of our lack of depth.  We were terrible before those injuries occurred though, so making them responsible is misguided at best.  I think if we can be competent for the remaining 10 games then we can get out of trouble because this division is weak - the supposed good teams aren't that good at all as we saw on Monday night.  But if we're more like we were in the games against Wigan, Luton and Barnsley...😨

The terrible injury issues are that we have had multiple injuries in the same position and repeated injuries that have stopped us being able to play a consistent side. We have had serious injuries to Randolph, Dijksteel, Friend, Ayala, Shotton, Fry, Roberts, Britt and Gestede. That is 9 players with long term injuries, add into that players with niggles and we have undoubtedly had injury serious issues. We could have had a bigger squad to cope with it better, but 9 players having serious injuries cannot be ignored

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54 minutes ago, mendieta420 said:

Literally not true. Most of us knew he'd been highly rated at City, last year had a decent time at Preston but struggled at Wolfsburg. He looked an ideal signing.

Are you sure? I'd love for everyone who agrees with you to attest to that fact. My recollection of it was people not having a clue who he was and it wasn't until they looked him up after he signed that they figured out where he'd been elsewhere in his career. I didn't even know he existed and I'd suggest most of us were the same in that respect, which is probably why a few people have gone so far as to liken him to Alex Nimely. I'd go so far as to say most of us know very little about who City's 'highly rated' youngsters are beyond the likes of Phil Foden and maybe Eric Garcia. Half of us don't even know who's the highest rated youngsters are in our own U23s, never mind theirs.

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Apart from a 12 day period over xmas we've been arguably the worst team in the division this season.

So yes maybe the table is lying. 

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21 minutes ago, BoroMart said:

The terrible injury issues are that we have had multiple injuries in the same position and repeated injuries that have stopped us being able to play a consistent side. We have had serious injuries to Randolph, Dijksteel, Friend, Ayala, Shotton, Fry, Roberts, Britt and Gestede. That is 9 players with long term injuries, add into that players with niggles and we have undoubtedly had injury serious issues. We could have had a bigger squad to cope with it better, but 9 players having serious injuries cannot be ignored

I'd dispute the long term injuries bit but that's only because of what I consider to be long term, so we may well differ on that.  Fry and Roberts were only recently injured.  Even Ayala was fit until the Preston game on the 1st January. So immediately you'd have to say that they were available for the bulk of the games we've played this season and we still were bad. 

Randolph was whatever the hell that was, I have no idea, but an injury seems unlikely based on what we now know.  Gestede yeah but I'm dubious as to how much he'd have played even if he was fit - he's only started a few games in the past three months when he has been available and Assombalonga was missing.  Assombalonga and Dijksteel only went down at the end of November/beginning of December I think and Assombalonga only missed like 8 or 9 games?  So they were both part of the squad who were rubbish for the first few months of the season as well and Dijksteel's injury brought forward Spence who has actually been better than him.  Friend wouldn't/shouldn't be in the side as he's been next to useless every time he's played this season. 

I agree we got hit hard in the central defensive positions but that was at different times I'd say rather than all at the same time - I think it was only because Woodgate seemed determined to play 3 at the back that we even noticed otherwise we would have had Ayala and Fry as a pairing and that would be normal.  Where else have we been hit hard really?  Even when Fry got injured, Shotton was back as well as Moukoudi coming in.  We brought in another GK who can't even make our bench after Randolph went.  Even with midfielders playing in defence, Clayton couldn't get a look in and we loaned out two of the players we signed in the summer as they weren't needed.  Nmecha and Morrison have come in and sometimes they are involved but sometimes not.

 

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32 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Are you sure? I'd love for everyone who agrees with you to attest to that fact. My recollection of it was people not having a clue who he was and it wasn't until they looked him up after he signed that they figured out where he'd been elsewhere in his career. I didn't even know he existed and I'd suggest most of us were the same in that respect, which is probably why a few people have gone so far as to liken him to Alex Nimely. I'd go so far as to say most of us know very little about who City's 'highly rated' youngsters are beyond the likes of Phil Foden and maybe Eric Garcia. Half of us don't even know who's the highest rated youngsters are in our own U23s, never mind theirs.

I still don't know who Nmecha is 👍

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5 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I still don't know who Nmecha is 👍

I've said similar myself, like being realistic, based on what we've seen of him what do we actually know about him? Never mind before he came in, he's played minutes here, he's started games, come on as a sub a few times, I mean no ill to the lad but what exactly is he here to do and what kind of player is he? And arguably, given the time he's had on the pitch for us... should we still be asking that question?

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Just now, wilsoncgp said:

I've said similar myself, like being realistic, based on what we've seen of him what do we actually know about him? Never mind before he came in, he's played minutes here, he's started games, come on as a sub a few times, I mean no ill to the lad but what exactly is he here to do and what kind of player is he? And arguably, given the time he's had on the pitch for us... should we still be asking that question?

I’d no idea who he was either, still not sure. Maybe he just turned up with his boots one day with a kit he’d bought from the club shop. 

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14 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I'd dispute the long term injuries bit but that's only because of what I consider to be long term, so we may well differ on that.  Fry and Roberts were only recently injured.  Even Ayala was fit until the Preston game on the 1st January. So immediately you'd have to say that they were available for the bulk of the games we've played this season and we still were bad. 

Randolph was whatever the hell that was, I have no idea, but an injury seems unlikely based on what we now know.  Gestede yeah but I'm dubious as to how much he'd have played even if he was fit - he's only started a few games in the past three months when he has been available and Assombalonga was missing.  Assombalonga and Dijksteel only went down at the end of November/beginning of December I think and Assombalonga only missed like 8 or 9 games?  So they were both part of the squad who were rubbish for the first few months of the season as well and Dijksteel's injury brought forward Spence who has actually been better than him.  Friend wouldn't/shouldn't be in the side as he's been next to useless every time he's played this season. 

I agree we got hit hard in the central defensive positions but that was at different times I'd say rather than all at the same time - I think it was only because Woodgate seemed determined to play 3 at the back that we even noticed otherwise we would have had Ayala and Fry as a pairing and that would be normal.  Where else have we been hit hard really?  Even when Fry got injured, Shotton was back as well as Moukoudi coming in.  We brought in another GK who can't even make our bench after Randolph went.  Even with midfielders playing in defence, Clayton couldn't get a look in and we loaned out two of the players we signed in the summer as they weren't needed.  Nmecha and Morrison have come in and sometimes they are involved but sometimes not.

 

Ayala has missed the last 12 games, that's a 1/4 of a season, and he is probably gonna miss another 2-4, that's significant, more than 1/4 of season

Roberts has missed 7 out of 12 games he has been available. That's more than 50% of his time with us

A fully fit and firing Gestede is an option that would play some games, he would also releive pressure on other strikers to play when not fully fit, regardless of his reputation amongst Boro fans, the lad can play a bit

Britt - well I'm not  a fan anyway, but he has been hampered by injuries for a couple of months. I'm personally happy that he is out the team, but hey

Dijksteel has missed 20 matches and will probably miss another couple. That's about half a season, it's significant, and has partially led to Howson missing in midfield. Spence's best moments might have been better than Dijksteel, but he has also looked way out of his depth at times too. Some fans are going OTT on him like with Wing when he broke into the side. He is way below champo quality at the moment, Dijksteel is a better defender, and when fit should be fine.

Friend isn't useless, he just hasn't been fully fit with a run of games for 2 years

We have had massive disruption to our teams, no consistency of selection and much of that forced. I think Moukoudi has had 5 different CB partners in 6 games.

I think we have played in the league 4xRB, 8xCB, 5xLB, 8xCM, 10xLW/RW, 6xCF

It's a mess, and at least partly caused y injuries.

 

 

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His name is Nmecha, he is a striker

With a little bit of pace, he should be difficult to face

He would have a nice touch here and a nice touch there

And while he tried to be star

He didn't look like he'd go far

Across the forward line, they tried to help him shine

He was young and he had potential

Surely - he'd - be - fine

At the Boro, Middlesboro

The worst team south of the mackems

At the Boro, Middlesboro

Football and passion were always the fashion

At the Boro.........he lost his place

 

Big shout out to my good friend Barry Manilow for this one 👍

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6 minutes ago, BoroMart said:

Ayala has missed the last 12 games, that's a 1/4 of a season, and he is probably gonna miss another 2-4, that's significant, more than 1/4 of season

Roberts has missed 7 out of 12 games he has been available. That's more than 50% of his time with us

A fully fit and firing Gestede is an option that would play some games, he would also releive pressure on other strikers to play when not fully fit, regardless of his reputation amongst Boro fans, the lad can play a bit

Britt - well I'm not  a fan anyway, but he has been hampered by injuries for a couple of months. I'm personally happy that he is out the team, but hey

Dijksteel has missed 20 matches and will probably miss another couple. That's about half a season, it's significant, and has partially led to Howson missing in midfield. Spence's best moments might have been better than Dijksteel, but he has also looked way out of his depth at times too. Some fans are going OTT on him like with Wing when he broke into the side. He is way below champo quality at the moment, Dijksteel is a better defender, and when fit should be fine.

Friend isn't useless, he just hasn't been fully fit with a run of games for 2 years

We have had massive disruption to our teams, no consistency of selection and much of that forced. I think Moukoudi has had 5 different CB partners in 6 games.

I think we have played in the league 4xRB, 8xCB, 5xLB, 8xCM, 10xLW/RW, 6xCF

It's a mess, and at least partly caused y injuries.

I think you're making some of that suit your point of view.  Roberts has been here on loan since January.  He wasn't here before that and had no part to play in it so whilst he's a miss for us now, he wasn't a miss for us when he wasn't here.  It's also worth pointing out that we haven't won a game that he has actually played in yet.  So whilst I like the look of the lad, I'm not ready to proclaim him our saviour just yet.

Gestede has been fit and hasn't been picked to play much.  That's a fact.  He's started three games in the league by the looks of it and he's been available for 3 or 4 months now.

Dijksteel being missing has had little to do with Howson not being in midfield.  Howson started the season as right back and Woodgate has shown little interest in picking him in midfield either way.  Dijksteel hasn't done much in a Boro shirt to suggest he's particularly good so far although I think given more time he might look the part, but we'll see.  I don't agree at all that Spence has looked out of his depth in any games.  He's played better in some than others but he's never been the worst Boro player on the pitch and for a lad with such little experience I'd say that was good going.

Friend is well past his best.  I think maybe you are looking at him as the player he was rather than the player he is now, which has been poor whenever he's played.  Some of that will be as a result of him being rusty, I accept that.  But he has been declining for a couple of years now and this season he has been incredibly poor when in the side.

I disagree about the consistency in selection being forced.  Woodgate has been changing the team throughout the season, desperately trying to find something that works and that hasn't had anything to do with injuries.  In fact, the injuries probably forced him to make fewer changes because he didn't have the options.  Of course I can see that he has had to make changes when a player has been injured but a lot of the changes are things he's choosing to do as we've seen recently with various players coming into and out of the team, almost at random.

Yeah, it is and has been a big mess 🙁

 

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