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3 minutes ago, Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die said:

The Karanka regime was when we had a clear direction and we have done *** all since it went sour. 

The three phase plan, what a time to be alive

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Do you think Gibson looks back at the Karanka regime and regrets sacking him? 

I mean, I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, and even the Gazette turned on Karanka by the end. But why did he replace him with *** Steve Agnew? That for me was THE worst appointment we have made. 

Monk I got behind due to his success at leeds and initially it went well. I think behind the scenes our relationship with Monk was soured so I dont hold that against Gibson at all. 

However, when we appointed Pulis, again i was open minded. Maybe more on the cant believe we would appoint the king of rugby football as our manager. But again, things worked well to begin with. 

Gibsons problem was again not replacing him after we crashed out of the play offs to Villa. Gibson held on too long and relationships soured. Probably the worst I've known it or felt as a Boro fan. It was in a word, toxic. 

Never could I imagine that it would be worse than then, but here we are. The worst part is I sit here, angry and frustrated but knowing that Gibson will not act. I can guarantee that if we lose to Barnsley, Leeds and Forest, he will still be here. And there in lies the problem. There is no sentiment in football and rightly so. Gibson has shown that his personal affection to the club is causing mistake after mistake. 

Appointing Southgate

Bringing in Downing when Karanka said no. 

Bringing in Rhodes when Karanka said no.

The january window in the prem.

Appointing Agnew.

Not sacking Pulis early enough

I'd put appointing Woodgate on here, but I can argue that hes given it a go and asked him to work on a tight budget. However, his problem is now not sacking Woodgate when enough is enough. 

 

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There was one other thing I thought whilst watching the game yesterday that I wanted to mention that makes me give more credence to the idea the players individually were not up for the game yesterday, as well as whatever *** the manager served up.

Would you expect that same kind of gutless performance if it was Leeds and not Luton? Do you think those players would have settled for being outrun, out-battled and shown such little heart were we playing Leeds? I genuinely don't think we would have.

I seem to recall the Leeds game at home last season, was it? Where Wing scored and Leeds got a late, late equaliser? Weren't we going through a bit of a shoddy spell and suddenly we turned up and actually outplayed Leeds for significant portions of the game? I wasn't at that game but from what I remember, it was a bit of a coupon buster in itself. Because we wanted to beat Leeds. It sounds crazy but we just didn't want to beat Luton yesterday, we didn't have strong professional individuals who saw the benefit of beating them enough to turn in a performance, certainly not from the senior players.

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Relegation must be worse for Gibson than having to pay out to sack another coach. Imagine all the loss of tv money and the fact we would probably average 10K a game.

I might just start watching old Boro games on a weekend and pretend like we are doing well.

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My opinion is woodgate should have not been given the job they should have got somebody in who knows what they are doing woodgate hasn't got a clue 

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Woodgate is on a 3 year contract, but hopefully it won’t cost too much to sack him. He’s useless so I want him gone before the end of the season. If he’s here for next season then it’s just another season wasted on a useless apprentice who isn’t learning. If Gibson is worried about it costing too much then he should think how much our players values are reduced due to playing like headless chickens as a result of his lack of coaching ability.

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2 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

There was one other thing I thought whilst watching the game yesterday that I wanted to mention that makes me give more credence to the idea the players individually were not up for the game yesterday, as well as whatever *** the manager served up.

Would you expect that same kind of gutless performance if it was Leeds and not Luton? Do you think those players would have settled for being outrun, out-battled and shown such little heart were we playing Leeds? I genuinely don't think we would have.

I seem to recall the Leeds game at home last season, was it? Where Wing scored and Leeds got a late, late equaliser? Weren't we going through a bit of a shoddy spell and suddenly we turned up and actually outplayed Leeds for significant portions of the game? I wasn't at that game but from what I remember, it was a bit of a coupon buster in itself. Because we wanted to beat Leeds. It sounds crazy but we just didn't want to beat Luton yesterday, we didn't have strong professional individuals who saw the benefit of beating them enough to turn in a performance, certainly not from the senior players.

I'm not so sure, to be honest. If you saw how we played at Leeds this season, we weren't much better. Though the way we played at Brentford, does give this some credence.

I guess we'll get a better idea when we play them in a couple of weeks (and Forest afterwards), if the players only want to turn up for the "big" games.

If this is the case, then I'm afraid my contempt for them will only grow.

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4 hours ago, Brunners said:

Which is weird because IMO he was by far our best CM to start the season. It's like during his time at CB he's totally forgotten how to play well in midfield.

I think he was as well but I also thought he was not as useful defensively, it was all about him getting forward.  We were also playing that 4-3-3 formation at that point in time and he tended to play on the right of the three so he had Howson at right back and whoever we played on the right side of the attack.  Yesterday he was one of two in the middle, if you figure Wing was playing further forward (I think he was caught in between tbh and ended up being a none factor as a result), so he had Spence over there and really no one else other than whichever striker would pull to that side sometimes.

I wouldn't play McNair in a midfield two because his instincts are to get forward.  That might sound daft for a lad that played at the back but if you watch him he wants to get forward and he isn't as switched on defensively.  I wouldn't personally play McNair, Saville and Wing as a midfield three either as I said against Wigan during the week.  None of them are good enough defensively and Wing isn't athletic enough to cover the ground needed as a genuine midfielder in my opinion or he just gets lazy mentally perhaps.  So either play Wing behind a striker or strikers or sit him on the bench as someone who can come on if you're chasing a game.

If we're being honest though, the whole situation is a mess right now.  A new goalkeeper who can't even make the bench for whatever reason.  Morrison starts in midweek out of nowhere but then can't even get on when we're chasing a game and aren't creating anything.  Clayton has obviously been *** off now, despite the fact that he is the only genuine defensive midfielder we have.  For any given game, it feels like we could set up just about any way imaginable and with any bugger in the team except for the new goalkeeper and Clayton of course 🙂 

We conceded three goals at Brentford so we kept the same back four in the following game against Wigan, the same midfield but changed two of the attackers? 🙄  We were awful against Wigan but we had to change Fry due to injury.  Friend came in for him, Spence came in for Morrison and Nmecha came back in for Assombalonga after a couple of games on the bench and we stopped playing a back four after trying it for all of two games, both away from home.  It's easy to say looking in from the outside but I'm buggered if I can figure out the thought processes for a lot of the stuff we see each game.

 

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2 hours ago, Lord_Moose said:

Relegation must be worse for Gibson than having to pay out to sack another coach. Imagine all the loss of tv money and the fact we would probably average 10K a game.

I might just start watching old Boro games on a weekend and pretend like we are doing well.

 

1 hour ago, p_mards said:

Woodgate is on a 3 year contract, but hopefully it won’t cost too much to sack him. He’s useless so I want him gone before the end of the season. If he’s here for next season then it’s just another season wasted on a useless apprentice who isn’t learning. If Gibson is worried about it costing too much then he should think how much our players values are reduced due to playing like headless chickens as a result of his lack of coaching ability.

I think it's more about ego than costs.  We were trying to sign his nephew, we weren't going to be able to pay for him with buttons or bottle tops, it was going to cost us something one way or another.

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19 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I think he was as well but I also thought he was not as useful defensively, it was all about him getting forward.  We were also playing that 4-3-3 formation at that point in time and he tended to play on the right of the three so he had Howson at right back and whoever we played on the right side of the attack.  Yesterday he was one of two in the middle, if you figure Wing was playing further forward (I think he was caught in between tbh and ended up being a none factor as a result), so he had Spence over there and really no one else other than whichever striker would pull to that side sometimes.

I wouldn't play McNair in a midfield two because his instincts are to get forward.  That might sound daft for a lad that played at the back but if you watch him he wants to get forward and he isn't as switched on defensively.  I wouldn't personally play McNair, Saville and Wing as a midfield three either as I said against Wigan during the week.  None of them are good enough defensively and Wing isn't athletic enough to cover the ground needed as a genuine midfielder in my opinion or he just gets lazy mentally perhaps.  So either play Wing behind a striker or strikers or sit him on the bench as someone who can come on if you're chasing a game.

If we're being honest though, the whole situation is a mess right now.  A new goalkeeper who can't even make the bench for whatever reason.  Morrison starts in midweek out of nowhere but then can't even get on when we're chasing a game and aren't creating anything.  Clayton has obviously been *** off now, despite the fact that he is the only genuine defensive midfielder we have.  For any given game, it feels like we could set up just about any way imaginable and with any bugger in the team except for the new goalkeeper and Clayton of course 🙂 

We conceded three goals at Brentford so we kept the same back four in the following game against Wigan, the same midfield but changed two of the attackers? 🙄  We were awful against Wigan but we had to change Fry due to injury.  Friend came in for him, Spence came in for Morrison and Nmecha came back in for Assombalonga after a couple of games on the bench and we stopped playing a back four after trying it for all of two games, both away from home.  It's easy to say looking in from the outside but I'm buggered if I can figure out the thought processes for a lot of the stuff we see each game.

 

I agree with all of this, Woodgates biggest problem is that he has no clue what formation to play it what tactics to deploy, theres no stability in the team and as such there just seems to be huge confusion on the pitch with the players not quite sure what their roles in the team are.

I'm all for Woodgate sodding off but that clearly isn't going to happen but he could really help himself out by deciding on a formation and gameplan and then sticking to his guns as it surley couldn't be any worse

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Who the *** does the ratings at the Gazette? One of the worst performances by any Middlesbrough team at the Riverside and the lowest individual score was a 4? How much worse can individuals play? And they've somehow managed to drag Spence into that bracket too. If anyone can explain to me how Spence comes out of that game being rated just as bad as Howson, Friend, McNair and Nmecha, I'd love to hear it. By no means did he have a good game but Saville and Wing got a 5 (despite us having absolutely no control over midfield) and Spence is on a 4 alongside some horrid senior players.

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We would need to pay out in the region of 2.5m to pay up JW and RK contracts. 

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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

Who the *** does the ratings at the Gazette? One of the worst performances by any Middlesbrough team at the Riverside and the lowest individual score was a 4? How much worse can individuals play? And they've somehow managed to drag Spence into that bracket too. If anyone can explain to me how Spence comes out of that game being rated just as bad as Howson, Friend, McNair and Nmecha, I'd love to hear it. By no means did he have a good game but Saville and Wing got a 5 (despite us having absolutely no control over midfield) and Spence is on a 4 alongside some horrid senior players.

We had no control over the midfield because Woodgate took them all off for strikers. As someone that's played at the highest level I don't understand how he can make such basic errors. I remember McClaren bringing Doriva on when we needed a goal because first we needed control over the midfield and the ball.

Another point I'd like to make is a lot of our better performances came with Adam Clayton in midfield. I'm not fan of his but we all know what he gives us that the likes of Wing/McNair don't.

 

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Gibson also messed up appointing Bevington into a role that he had no experience of beforehand. Bevington did the right thing and stepped down when he realised he was out of his depth. It’s inescapable that Gibson couldn’t have messed up many more appointments into senior positions. What a shambles we are.

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19 minutes ago, mendieta420 said:

We had no control over the midfield because Woodgate took them all off for strikers.

True but they didn't have individually good performances either and certainly not better than Spence. I can't quite understand why Saville and Wing would get that benefit of the doubt when Spence wouldn't.

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