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What is the medium/long term vision of the club?

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1 minute ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

On a 3yr contract for all of them mate. Jokanovic wanted north of 80k a week. That's 12.4 million on his contract alone. All adds up

Are you sure it's correct and isn't just something you're being told that maybe isn't quite true?  It seems strange to me that Jokanovic could be in the running for the job if his and his team's demands were so high as there is no possible way we could afford it.  Money is one of the first things to be discussed in any deal and that would have been an immediate 'no chance' on our part.  Sounds like it was all for show and we had absolutely no intention of hiring him at all.

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2 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Was gonna say, take that number, divide by 3 then 52, across 10 staff you're looking at an average salary of ~£16k. Take Jokanovic's 'higher than Pulis' salary away and it's around ~£9k per other member of staff. 1-3 of those will be on bigger wages than some, spread out across them I don't think that's inconceivable at all.

It's inconceivable that we would be even considering it mate, that was my point.  Absolutely no way we had any serious interest in committing £25m over three years to a coaching team.  It's laughable in fact.  If our wage bill now is too high at about £21/22m then how could we consider adding over 33% to it just on staff alone?  Not gonna happen in a million years, so it was all a load of b/s and we were never really in for him at all.

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15 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

It's inconceivable that we would be even considering it mate, that was my point.  Absolutely no way we had any serious interest in committing £25m over three years to a coaching team.  It's laughable in fact.  If our wage bill now is too high at about £21/22m then how could we consider adding over 33% to it just on staff alone?  Not gonna happen in a million years, so it was all a load of b/s and we were never really in for him at all.

Maybe we rang him and asked for a ball-park figure, Bausor slammed the phone down when he heard how much he'd cost and got straight onto the Gazette to say we'd been 'in talks' with him,

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8 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Maybe we rang him and asked for a ball-park figure, Bausor slammed the phone down when he heard how much he'd cost and got straight onto the Gazette to say we'd been 'in talks' with him,

That's probably pretty close to what happened 

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The club's vision is whatever Gibson decides it is, which in my experience means it can change from year to year depending on how he feels at any given time.  I suspect that he'd love the club to be self sufficient, which can be done just as long as we're selling several million Pounds worth of players every season or the wage bill is halved from where it is now.  But then, we're not signing players like his nephew if that's the case so it kinda feels like there's a form of conflict there.  I would guess that's between Gibson the fan and Gibson the businessman.

If I was in his position, the first thing I'd be looking to do is appointing the right people in key positions.  That for me would be based around intelligence and ability/experience in the job(s).  It wouldn't be based on cost because if I get those decisions wrong then the longer term plan/strategy just won't work so going cheap for cheaps sake isn't an option.  The issue I therefore have with Gibson is that he's putting everything on Woodgate being that man, when it's difficult to see any basis for it, and I suspect he will double down in the summer and spend money trying to prove that initial decision was correct.  This is after putting Bevington in a key role on the back of what exactly?

Putting everything else to one side for a minute, we don't look like a well coached or well prepared team and you can probably count on one hand the number of times that we have looked like that this season.  We haven't got the worst squad in the league by any means although it could certainly be better.  However, I'm not having it that the likes of Millwall, Preston, Blackburn have superior squads to us so we are losing out in other areas and that has to be coaching/management.  The only way we can overcome that is if Woodgate improves significantly with more experience (which could definitely happen in fairness) or we spend to try and compensate for his deficiencies.  We really need Woodgate to get good asap.  At the same time, we need those people responsible for identifying and signing players to start hitting the target far more often.  My personal lack of faith in all things Boro right now stems from the fact that I don't have a great deal of belief in those two things happening.  That's what we need though and it will make all the difference in the world if it does 👍

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58 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Are you sure it's correct and isn't just something you're being told that maybe isn't quite true?  It seems strange to me that Jokanovic could be in the running for the job if his and his team's demands were so high as there is no possible way we could afford it.  Money is one of the first things to be discussed in any deal and that would have been an immediate 'no chance' on our part.  Sounds like it was all for show and we had absolutely no intention of hiring him at all.

It was what I was told mate. I dont have anymore info then that to be honest. If I'm wrong then as always I will apologise and stand corrected mate. That said the 2.5mil to pay them all off equates to around 12k a week combined... whilst they are not on masses of ££ I can see it being more than that.

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7 hours ago, Duvel said:

Right, I've nicked this topic from fmttm because I think it's a great question. 

What do you think is the medium/long term vision for the club? 

I'd love to hear from some of our ITKers on here who maybe hear certain things out of the club. 

Do you still believe the stuff that came out of the club last summer, do the club genuinely believe that Woodgate is the man to take the club forward? Is this season all part of a grand masterplan where things will eventually start to move forward? 

Or has Steve Gibson lost interest as some people are suggesting? 

Do we have a vision?

Well I'm certainly not claiming to be ITK.

 

However, if the club still GENUINELY believe Woodgate is the man to take the club forward, then I think some padded cells need to be made ready at the nearest psychiatric hospital.

Based on what I've seen this season, I don't see how Woodgate can take us anywhere but down. Okay, he's had a lot less to work with than some managers and is a rookie to boot. However he's shown absolutely zero signs of learning any lessons or improving as a manager, either tactically or man-management wise.

This club isn't going to move forward until we get a competent manager at the helm.

If Gibson hasn't lost interest, then he is probably scared to show his face (especially after what happened to Ed Woodward). Which in one sense I can understand. But OTOH seems quite cowardly. He's happy to be seen when we've been in the PL, or pushing for promotion...but nowhere to be seen when things go bad.

I know chairmen don't (and generally shouldn't) get involved in day-to-day club business, but leadership starts from the top and I think the least he could do is issue some sort of statement about the club's financial situation, why certain decisions have been made and what the goals are for the next couple of seasons. Just to help everyone see there may be some light at the end of the tunnel, if nothing else.

Seems a bit crappy to leave the manager and players carrying the can, especially when we know the situation isn't 100% their fault.

 

If the club has a vision, its probably something like this:

stoned the simpsons GIF

 

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I think the golden thread comments made in the summer were a cheap way to get fans onside to buy into giving Woodgate more time. Is say this with zero evidence of that golden thread being implemented. 

I'd love for someone more knowledgeable than I to tell me what formation our youth teams are currently playing. I've tried to find out but cant find any info. I'd be surprised if we're all playing a 4 3 3 in the same format. 

However, what ever hill Gibson is prepared to die on for Woodgate, the club and the fans suffer.  

If you compare Forest and us, they have got a manager who has come in with a new ethos and ideas. They are flying and we have stagnated all season. Even when forest had a bad run the manager learnt from it. Woodgate has lost to a team we drew 3 3 to on the opening day. That is a backwards step. 

Short term is survival and to stay in the championship next season. 

Medium term I'd say to bring the youth through and integrate them into the first 11. Make our academy our main player recruitment base and reduce the outlay on external transfers. 

Long term probably a Teesside core to the team with a clear pathway for players to come in to and perform. 

I just have absolute 0 faith in him or the staff to do this though. 

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Short term - Get rid off high earners, stay in the division 

Medium Term - Become a mid-table Championship Club, continue to blood through some of the youngsters and identify talent from the lower leagues, non-league etc.

Long term - Challenge for the play-offs/top 2.

Right now we are a million miles away from the medium term let alone the long term. Absolute disgrace how we've managed to go from being a top end Championship club to a relegation threatened club in the space of a couple of seasons. The club should be ashamed of itself. Bad decision after bad decision I'm fed up of the whole thing. 

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Any sort of vision is meaningless if Gibson appoints people into key positions that aren't fit for purpose. Gibson appointing Bevington to head of recruitment turned out to be a disaster. Appointing Woodgate as a head coach looks to be another massive mistake. We look as poorly coached of a team that I have watched since following us since 2001; It's staggering how 3 midfielder can consistently lose the midfielder battle of a game and provide poor defensive protection. Clayton and Leadbitter's combination during 2014 to 2016 was leaps and bounds ahead of the disorganised midfield mess Woodgate throws on the pitch every week.

If we're every going to be run well we're going to need a Sporting Director/Director of Football. I'd like to see us cast the net far and wide, and even let someone like Kenyon drive the process as I just wouldn't trust Gibson to be able to make the right decision about who to interview and then who to appoint. We need someone to implement a long term plan with no exceptions to the rule like Stewart Downing, Jordan Rhodes and Ben Gibson. That's where Steve Gibson is going to have to give up control if we're ever going to operate successfully with someone in that Sporting Director/Director of Football role. I'm sure there are plenty of people in them roles performing well in many divisions that we could attract here. Whether that's from a small Championship club, League One or even a foreign league. I'm sick of having the same frustrations about Steve Gibson wasting so many seasons through his incompetence.

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I don't think there is one, bar lurching from one disaster to the next.

Gibson seems content to see where this ship sails. I think unless Woodgate loses the fans completely he will be here for as long as we are in the Championship. 

Whatever Gibson and Woodgate agreed were the terms of reference in the summer will always be the plan.

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I honestly think Woodgate didn't quite realise the challenge he had on his hands regarding changing the mindset of this squad of players from being ultra defensive, lump it forward and play without the ball team to being a high press, high line play with the ball team.

With that in mind I reckon this season is a dead rubber where Woodgate will continue to switch tactics and formations on a game by game basis to try and do what's nessecery to survive this season and then regroup and go again next season with a rather large overhaul of the squad and hopefully we will then see the football we were promised and desperately want to see

 

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How could he not know the “challenge on his hands”? He had been part of the coaching staff for 18 months before his appointment?

He was the first team coach when Pulis was here.

The style of play has not changed one bit. Patterns of play exactly the same. 

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As has been pointed out the club dont seem to have any real vision going forward. The medium term plan is probably what formation we are playing v Barnsley and the long term plan is what formation for Leeds.


It would be great to get quality personnel throughout the club, but you need to get the first team coaching set up right first otherwise it undermines what the rest do. I am not so sure that if Woodgate had Brentfords scouts and backroom team he would be able to produce better results than he is now. I hope SG is contemplating this on his holiday.

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