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Should Jonathan Woodgate be sacked?

Should Woodgate be sacked?  

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  1. 1. Should Woodgate be sacked?



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With this squad i would struggle to come up with a formation which didn't involve round pegs and square holes probably  5 3 1 1

Pears,

Spence Shotton Ayala Fry Coulson

Clayton wing saville 

Morrisons 

Britt

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I clinging onto the hope that we like to  make announcements between 6-7pm for maximum media attention 🙃

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23 minutes ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

With this squad i would struggle to come up with a formation which didn't involve round pegs and square holes probably  5 3 1 1

Pears,

Spence Shotton Ayala Fry Coulson

Clayton wing saville 

Morrisons 

Britt

No Tav? Fletcher has been better than Britt this season too I would say. I also know you said you're trying to do it without round pegs in square holes but I would rather play Howson at the back than Shotton.

 

Pears

Howson Ayala Fry

Spence Saville Clayton Coulson

Tav Wing (Roberts when fit)

Fletcher

 

 

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3 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Woodgate can't win on the tactics front. He was forced to change from his preferred style when injuries and results hit us hard at the early point in the season. 

Players only recently started coming back into the side in the last month as we brought new boys in and Woodgate was determined to go back to his preferred style, but he has only just recently had the chance to do that, when we started looking safer. 

 

33 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

And that's where this topic ends. You're not challenging what I've said, you're not countering my point of doublespeak, you're making a point to disagree with me over a point I've not even made. Once again you've said:

Something if you'll take note of what I've said above, I actually agree with. So what on earth are you banging on about saying I think I can get away with saying something unchallenged? Perhaps if you'd challenged it to begin with, we wouldn't even be having this completely pointless argument.

Ok, first of all, that's not what doublespeak means anyway but you are using all of this as a way to deflect attention from the terrible job Woodgate is doing.  I have challenged it by pointing out that we made changes right at the beginning of the season and they had nothing to do with injuries or results, which is what you've claimed.  Woodgate panicked and changed our style of play completely, he wasn't forced to at all.  That immediately undermines your point although you don't seem to accept that. If people are criticising him for that then it's fair enough.  If he'd changed it and we'd been winning games then nobody would give a crap - he can win by winning on the pitch.  But he makes change after change and we don't win and we don't improve and of course he's going to get criticised for it because some of the changes are completely unnecessary, it's simply his choice.

You've also said that Woodgate was determined to go back to his preferred style of play - based on what?  At what point have we gone back to the way we started the season for any length of time?  Every now and then we do the pressing thing in a game but there's no consistency to it at all.  There's no consistency to anything we do or have done for most of this season.  You seem to think that's solely down to his hand being forced but I don't because we have made lots of changes that weren't forced.  Even recently, the changes we've made weren't forced.  Dael Fry getting injured at Wigan was a pain in the *** but look at the changes between Brentford and the Wigan game before his injury - 4-2-3-1 at Brentford, 4-3-1-2 at Wigan.  Wing dropped back deeper into midfield, Johnson and Tavernier dropped completely from the side, Morrison and Assombalonga come into the side.   Did we play a pressing game in either of these two, a bit at Brentford possibly but I didn't see it at Wigan?  So what exactly are you talking about when you say he is determined to go back to his preferred style of play?  What even is his preferred style of play?  Do we really know because we don't see it out on the pitch for any length of time?

I don't think anyone has suggested we should have played 4-3-3 all the way through the season, which is something else you subsequently said.  I think some people, including TeaCider24, believe that we should have stuck with the original plan longer than a game and a half though.  That's not just about a formation, it's about an ethos, a style of play as you put it.  We ditched it almost immediately because Woodgate panicked, not because he was forced to do so.  If we'd stuck with it for a period of time and it just wasn't working before he made significant changes then you might have a point.  But we didn't and he didn't so your point that he can't win is invalid in my opinion.

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33 minutes ago, OldManGravz said:

No Tav? Fletcher has been better than Britt this season too I would say. I also know you said you're trying to do it without round pegs in square holes but I would rather play Howson at the back than Shotton.

 

Pears

Howson Ayala Fry

Spence Saville Clayton Coulson

Tav Wing (Roberts when fit)

Fletcher

 

 

I would rather play than Shotton and I an 5'7 and 20 stone. Forgot about Tav would have him in.  

If 433 was Woodys preferred formation we really don't have anywhere near the squad to play it.

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27 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

 

Ok, first of all, that's not what doublespeak means anyway but you are using all of this as a way to deflect attention from the terrible job Woodgate is doing.  I have challenged it by pointing out that we made changes right at the beginning of the season and they had nothing to do with injuries or results, which is what you've claimed.  Woodgate panicked and changed our style of play completely, he wasn't forced to at all.  That immediately undermines your point although you don't seem to accept that. If people are criticising him for that then it's fair enough.  If he'd changed it and we'd been winning games then nobody would give a crap - he can win by winning on the pitch.  But he makes change after change and we don't win and we don't improve and of course he's going to get criticised for it because some of the changes are completely unnecessary, it's simply his choice.

You've also said that Woodgate was determined to go back to his preferred style of play - based on what?  At what point have we gone back to the way we started the season for any length of time?  Every now and then we do the pressing thing in a game but there's no consistency to it at all.  There's no consistency to anything we do or have done for most of this season.  You seem to think that's solely down to his hand being forced but I don't because we have made lots of changes that weren't forced.  Even recently, the changes we've made weren't forced.  Dael Fry getting injured at Wigan was a pain in the *** but look at the changes between Brentford and the Wigan game before his injury - 4-2-3-1 at Brentford, 4-3-1-2 at Wigan.  Wing dropped back deeper into midfield, Johnson and Tavernier dropped completely from the side, Morrison and Assombalonga come into the side.   Did we play a pressing game in either of these two, a bit at Brentford possibly but I didn't see it at Wigan?  So what exactly are you talking about when you say he is determined to go back to his preferred style of play?  What even is his preferred style of play?  Do we really know because we don't see it out on the pitch for any length of time?

I don't think anyone has suggested we should have played 4-3-3 all the way through the season, which is something else you subsequently said.  I think some people, including TeaCider24, believe that we should have stuck with the original plan longer than a game and a half though.  That's not just about a formation, it's about an ethos, a style of play as you put it.  We ditched it almost immediately because Woodgate panicked, not because he was forced to do so.  If we'd stuck with it for a period of time and it just wasn't working before he made significant changes then you might have a point.  But we didn't and he didn't so your point that he can't win is invalid in my opinion.

I agree with Wilson, Woodgate can’t win (he really can’t).

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34 minutes ago, Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die said:

I'd like to know your opinions on Woodgate @Lurker @Smoggydownsouth  @Raf smog @nunthorpered I mean the whole club isn't really geared up to move forward so Woodgate is rightly getting scrutiny but it deflects from some other issues such as our recruitment department and long term plan if we have one.... 

Woodgate was always on a hiding to nothing... I have defended him where I think fair... transition from coach ( where it's well known he was a jack the lad ) to manager who commands respect and authority was always going to be difficult. That combined with the complete wrong structure for a rookie manager plus the Bevington experiment all leads to where we are... would I have accepted the job in his shoes..1000000% yes.. boro lad managing his home town team etc. I dont think we can lay all the blame there. Certain players who are leaving in the summer or quite possibly engineering moves have stopped playing as they were ( just my opinion).  So many factors that are negative to success and as you can see it's what has culminated In this... cant blame the kids.. everyone knows their form fluctuates. I think I know how this plays out but that's just personally speaking... we go down... decks are cleared. Woody starts again... will be given 10 games.. no sign of improvement = change.

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2 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

I think I know how this plays out but that's just personally speaking... we go down... decks are cleared. Woody starts again... will be given 10 games.. no sign of improvement = change.

Essentially Southgate mk 2.

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2 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

Woodgate was always on a hiding to nothing... I have defended him where I think fair... transition from coach ( where it's well known he was a jack the lad ) to manager who commands respect and authority was always going to be difficult. That combined with the complete wrong structure for a rookie manager plus the Bevington experiment all leads to where we are... would I have accepted the job in his shoes..1000000% yes.. boro lad managing his home town team etc. I dont think we can lay all the blame there. Certain players who are leaving in the summer or quite possibly engineering moves have stopped playing as they were ( just my opinion).  So many factors that are negative to success and as you can see it's what has culminated In this... cant blame the kids.. everyone knows their form fluctuates. I think I know how this plays out but that's just personally speaking... we go down... decks are cleared. Woody starts again... will be given 10 games.. no sign of improvement = change.

You really think Woody stays if we go down? 

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1 minute ago, RealSlimSladeyy said:

You really think Woody stays if we go down? 

Yes I do... no ITK just a gut feeling 

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9 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

Woodgate was always on a hiding to nothing... I have defended him where I think fair... transition from coach ( where it's well known he was a jack the lad ) to manager who commands respect and authority was always going to be difficult. That combined with the complete wrong structure for a rookie manager plus the Bevington experiment all leads to where we are... would I have accepted the job in his shoes..1000000% yes.. boro lad managing his home town team etc. I dont think we can lay all the blame there. Certain players who are leaving in the summer or quite possibly engineering moves have stopped playing as they were ( just my opinion).  So many factors that are negative to success and as you can see it's what has culminated In this... cant blame the kids.. everyone knows their form fluctuates. I think I know how this plays out but that's just personally speaking... we go down... decks are cleared. Woody starts again... will be given 10 games.. no sign of improvement = change.

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Just now, Smoggydownsouth said:

Yes I do... no ITK just a gut feeling 

So many of us stated he was not experienced enough to manage a Championship team and should have started in the lower leagues, well it seems as if that will happen should (and probably will) get relegated.

Like others have a feeling he will be given a go to see how he can fare in the lower leagues, sadly to the detriment of the Boro fans.

What an indication of where we are and how those running the club are planning for.

Sickening really!

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