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Denzel Zanzibar

Should Jonathan Woodgate be sacked?

Should Woodgate be sacked?  

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  1. 1. Should Woodgate be sacked?



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What was a joke appointment has predictably come to this. No way would I "bring someone in to help him", if Woodgate isn't up to the job then he has to go. In my opinion, he will never manage/coach another football league club. Utterly inept, lacking in intelligence and seemingly totally devoid of any motivational skills.

OUT and quickly please.

Cheese n Onion...Walkers.

 

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I still wouldn't sack him, I've genuinely no confidence he'll be replaced with anyone better and if that's not going to happen then I see little justification in getting rid.

But I can't say I'd be shocked in terms of his performance if he was, either. 1 point from 9 in 3 consecutive games against the bottom 3 is some level of shittery. I'd be disappointed as I wanted it to work out for him but that's football.

I still think some people need to re-direct their abuse a bit though. People royally going in on Woodgate whilst the man who lead the club to the brink of requiring him to be the manager is rarely mentioned by some. It's much less frequent on here I will say but I've mentioned before, over every radio phone-in I've heard where the 'Woodgate out' brigade comes on, I've heard one person suggest Gibson might be out of his depth (beyond the idea of keeping Woodgate in charge).

Just remember that Woodgate is a fall guy. I'm not gonna say it was inevitable that he'd fail but I completely understand why some would say that. In that scenario where he is an inevitable failure, why is he getting the pelters and not the man who put him in charge? Even if you take it that it was a decision made with financial incentives of cutting the wage bill down (vs. other options), you have to acknowledge why we needed to do that. There are far too many Boro fans out there who think Woodgate is the problem and that by getting rid of him, you solve the problem.

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I agree with Wilson, yes everything one says the buck stops with the manager and yes he is making mistakes, he is young and inexperienced so will make mistakes, you have to look at the long term picture, this is what Gibson wants, a club that is all about the area, the fans and a plan of sustainability, Woodgate is here for the long haul and unlike some people on here so am I, even if that means relegation. I hope not and don’t think we will be relegated but if we are then so be it, I can’t think of any manager that is available that will come in and save our season just like that so what’s the point in keeping chopping and changing. 

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21 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I still wouldn't sack him, I've genuinely no confidence he'll be replaced with anyone better and if that's not going to happen then I see little justification in getting rid.

But I can't say I'd be shocked in terms of his performance if he was, either. 1 point from 9 in 3 consecutive games against the bottom 3 is some level of shittery. I'd be disappointed as I wanted it to work out for him but that's football.

I still think some people need to re-direct their abuse a bit though. People royally going in on Woodgate whilst the man who lead the club to the brink of requiring him to be the manager is rarely mentioned by some. It's much less frequent on here I will say but I've mentioned before, over every radio phone-in I've heard where the 'Woodgate out' brigade comes on, I've heard one person suggest Gibson might be out of his depth (beyond the idea of keeping Woodgate in charge).

Just remember that Woodgate is a fall guy. I'm not gonna say it was inevitable that he'd fail but I completely understand why some would say that. In that scenario where he is an inevitable failure, why is he getting the pelters and not the man who put him in charge? Even if you take it that it was a decision made with financial incentives of cutting the wage bill down (vs. other options), you have to acknowledge why we needed to do that. There are far too many Boro fans out there who think Woodgate is the problem and that by getting rid of him, you solve the problem.

Yeah all good points and all but what flavour crisps do you like?

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Just now, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Yeah all good points and all but what flavour crisps do you like?

It's a tough one as I like to chop and change my crisps. Currently I'd say Flamin' Hot Monster Munch but keep your eyes peeled as that could change in the future!

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5 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

It's a tough one as I like to chop and change my crisps. Currently I'd say Flamin' Hot Monster Munch but keep your eyes peeled as that could change in the future!

Look sonny I gave @AnglianRed a pass with Pringles because of the flavour he chose but you're taking the *** with this blatant baked corn snack choice!

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No doubting that Gibson heads up this latest madcap scenario and that over recent years, he has made some shocking decisions.

I do like the supposed new model from the club: taking a punt on lower league and academy players and I think it's the way forward, but the personnel leading this are not fit for purpose. The recruitment set-up needs a total clear-out, as does the management team.

And yes, Woodgate IS culpable. Sending a team on the park with very little commitment or desire, yet another tinkered line-up, change in positions/formation etc.

Some 9 months on, he still doesn't know his best team, preferred formation, absolute car crash. I can't accept the stance that he's learning his trade. It is quite clear to a blind man on a galloping horse that he possesses no obvious ability to manage a corner shop, never mind a sizeable football club.

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I was not one who thought the appointment was not sensible and I take no comfort in the fact he failed. This is about the club and only the club, our club, it’s our future and a plan that’s failed, and there needs to be away we’re both sides can withdraw amicably. 
There is nothing to suggest Woody has tactical awareness and nothing to suggest he is learning or making progress. Woody has a team far better than statistics are shown. 

Woody benefited from international breaks and youth who pulled us above the bottom three, but he returned showing signs of desperation and abandoned players getting positive results. 

BORO are the leagues lowest goal scores yet he leave attacking wing backs on the bench starving our attackers. 
 

I do not see a better next season, he needs to go. 

 

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50 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I still wouldn't sack him, I've genuinely no confidence he'll be replaced with anyone better and if that's not going to happen then I see little justification in getting rid.

But I can't say I'd be shocked in terms of his performance if he was, either. 1 point from 9 in 3 consecutive games against the bottom 3 is some level of shittery. I'd be disappointed as I wanted it to work out for him but that's football.

I still think some people need to re-direct their abuse a bit though. People royally going in on Woodgate whilst the man who lead the club to the brink of requiring him to be the manager is rarely mentioned by some. It's much less frequent on here I will say but I've mentioned before, over every radio phone-in I've heard where the 'Woodgate out' brigade comes on, I've heard one person suggest Gibson might be out of his depth (beyond the idea of keeping Woodgate in charge).

Just remember that Woodgate is a fall guy. I'm not gonna say it was inevitable that he'd fail but I completely understand why some would say that. In that scenario where he is an inevitable failure, why is he getting the pelters and not the man who put him in charge? Even if you take it that it was a decision made with financial incentives of cutting the wage bill down (vs. other options), you have to acknowledge why we needed to do that. There are far too many Boro fans out there who think Woodgate is the problem and that by getting rid of him, you solve the problem.

At the same time, you can't expect people to be going, "Ah never mind Woody...you tried your best. Better luck next time..."

Not after the garbage we've witnessed this season.

As far as I'm concerned, its everyone's fault...Gibson, Woody and the players.

Gibson for not making more of an effort to find a capable manager who was willing to work within the club's financial constraints. Only an utter moron wouldn't have recognised appointing a total rookie...while also having very little money to spend...was a disaster waiting to happen.

Woodgate for utterly failing to learn from his mistakes, doing the same thing game after game and apparently expecting different results (see Einstein's definition of insanity).

The players for abdicating any responsibility on the pitch and simply not making any effort. I know footballers aren't the sharpest tools in the box, but they have been training / playing in most cases, since they were kids. You'd think they'd have some sort of clue what to do if they're getting crap instructions from the manager / coaches (after all, thats apparently how we got to the UEFA Cup Final) .

 

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49 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

There are far too many Boro fans out there who think Woodgate is the problem and that by getting rid of him, you solve the problem.

I think those people are in the minority, I barely read any comments online or speak to people who think that Gibson isn't part of the problem. 

Just because our chairman is incompetent that isn't justification for sticking with a failing manager. 

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Just one other thing (and probably my final piece on this) is that if Gibson had been doing his job properly, he'd have recognised the Woodgate Plan wasn't going to work and he'd have had a replacement lined up by now.

As it is, his stubborness and inaction mean we are likely going to be playing League 1 football next season and if we do drop, we will likely stay there for a few years at least.

He should reflect on what that will do for season ticket sales & gate receipts, TV money, sponsorship etc.

Its all very well wanting to reduce the club's operating budget, but if/when that is the end result, it will likely end up costing him more in the long run, to keep the club afloat.

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Straight out of the blocks, cheese and onion McCoys. Every day of the week. Although I am partial to a bag of skips or Wotsits. 

However, regarding Woodgate, 100% yes. And below is a long essay on why. 

So I've just driven back from coaching this morning and saved the BBC Tees post match for the drive. On the call Woodgate came out and said something along the lines of, we are in a relegation fight and always have been. Okay fair enough. However, Shotton came on after and said something along the lines of the players are now thinking they're in a relegation fight and they need to improve. 

But something here doesnt add up. How can players be realising it JUST now, when Woodgate has said this is the case all along?

Now I'm a cynical bugger and I am sure that Woodgate just pumps out the soundbites, but it shows to me how disjointed the whole season is. That's the freshest reason of number 1. 

Number 2 - 8 wins in 34 games. With no sign of improvement. 

Number 3 - when we're on the pitch we look absolutely clueless. Not even with a specific tactic, shape or pattern to our game.

Number 4 - the in game substitutions. 4 strikers on the pitch then moaning that they're not getting the service service. All while having Tav and Rav on the bench. 

Number 5 - the feeling I have now is just helplessness. He is surrounded by inexperienced people who have never shown any ability to do this before. How can you expect to lead professionals?

Number 6 - abandoning the 'high press'. A fancy sound bite to get the boro faithful on board. Threw Pulis under the bus and said his football was boring. Promised attacking and vibrant football. Yet Pulis achieved 49 goals compared to our current of 34 total with 10 games left in the season before he left. Worth noting that Pulis conceded 41 goals and Woodgate is currently on 44 with 10 games left. The stats dont lie. 

Number 7 - he has recently thrown the young players under the bus. Unforgivable as to them being the ones who have got half of your success this season. 4 games over christmas is half of our wins. That sentence in itself is enough imo. 

Number 8 - im finding his post match press conferences boring now. "Come at me not the players" *** off man. Do your job and coach them.

Number 9 - buying players and then loaning them out. A waste of money and for me his lack of talent identification. 

Number 10 - 1 point against the bottom 3. If early in the season, do you know what? I would mind. However, this late in the season is proving he is either losing the dressing room, or isnt learning from his mistakes. 

I can forgive him for taking the job. Anyone of us would have. But. What is unforgiving is not moving aside when he is taking the club down and losing the fans and dressing room. 

Now moving forward, Hughton is out of work. With a track record and is a nice guy to boot. He is an option that we should be looking at. 

I 100000% agree that we should invest the most money into a manager rather than players. On paper, I would say we have bigger names that Leeds in some areas, and we certainly outshadowed them when Bielsa took over. But now, through amazing coaching the players have got better. 

Through Woodgates coaching, ours have got worse. On the eye and statistically. 

Thank you for listening to my TedTalk.

Edit: Also worth noting how Woodgate is moving away from referring to himself as the head coach and now calls himself the "manager". To me that suggests he is removing his handling of our players and is shifting the blame on to other people. 

Edited by ManBearPig
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defended Woodgate all season long, saying he needs time and he's inherited a tough situation.  but cant do it anymore, he manged to fluke a winning system when changes were forced on him by the injury/suspension of shotton, assombalonga, friend, mcnair , Johnson, etc. young energetic players were brought in and we went on a great run, , playing good football and generally outplaying some top sides.  I'm almost embarrassed to say now but I thought a late run for the playoffs wasn't out the question.

however, despite having this winning formula forced upon him, as soon as the before mentioned players were fit again, they were put straight back in the squad while all the youth players who had performed so well were placed back on the bench.

To the surprise of absalulty nobody except Woodgate, our form has fallen of a cliff again. its clear to anyone watching that mcnair, shotton and especially assombalonga don't want to be here, so why play them?  id rather just throw the kids in, at least they'd show some passion.  but no, he chooses to play the same players and tactics from earlier in the season that caused to the team to go 10 without winning and to be the lowest scorers in the league. how can he be this inept? what possible makes him thing that this would work?  you had a winning formula why did you revert back to the one that didn't work? it honestly boggles the mind. 

for the first time this season iv truly lost all faith in Woodgate....id really love it work out, but I think he has to go.

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