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Should Jonathan Woodgate be sacked?

Should Woodgate be sacked?  

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  1. 1. Should Woodgate be sacked?



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27 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

My point is that I feel sticking or twisting will cause very little change in the long run so why bother wasting the money. If we're gonna fall, we're gonna fall regardless of who comes in. As above re: United, the manager isn't the problem and there are very few managers we can bring in who will be able to work in a broken system and provide anything positive.

Sacking Woodgate isn't a positive move in and of itself and I can't support it because what we can see right now is bad, I need something more concretely positive in what comes after to support it and I sincerely doubt that will happen unless an ITK comes on and tells us who's next in line if Woodgate goes. You said yourself if Woodgate goes it could be Friend or Hignett, is that a positive move? A captain with less experience in coaching than Woodgate or a twice failed National League manager?

I suppose I'm just blindly hoping that Gibson will look beyond a 5 mile radius of Middlesbrough when selecting a new manager. 

I just don't see any benefit of keeping Woodgate at the club anymore, ok it's going to cost us to sack him but how much will relegation cost the club? 

I'm not saying sacking Woodgate will solve everything, the club needs completely overhauling from top to bottom but in the short term we need to avoid relegation and in my opinion I think changing manager is the most likely option of helping us to survive.  

 

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42 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

If we replace with someone like Warnock, I can see us becoming the Championship equivalent of Sunderland in the Prem. Scraping out of relegation and then being *** the next season, cue replace, rinse, repeat for 4 years until we eventually get relegated to League One. Netflix give us a special and we get relegated to League Two with Robbie Stockdale providing the mid-season filler content. League Two play-off final ends in despair as Richie Smallwood fails on his return to provide the positive captain's impact we hoped.

I'm over-dramatising of course but I can't see any significant positive impact until Gibson actually changes tact.

Of course, that could happen wilson, this is football. Every managerial appointment is a massive gamble, with most failing to live up to the aspirations of the chairman and fans. That is just the way it is. I have suggested Warnock until the end of the season as I think he would buy us time. If we went for him and offered him a 2 and a half year contract I would be dead against it as it just  perpetuates a system that does not suit what was supposed to be a brave new era. If we accept we are a club that is going to pick up a rough diamond and develop them and potentially Integrate them into a successful side then we need a head coach that can coach. Someone who knows how he wants to play and coaches them to be better, not send them back to their past clubs to let them improve them. This is especially relevant given the rebuild required in the summer. Woodgate has demonstrated that he does not have the focus or ability to coach a player to be better and if things aren’t working his option is to tear it up. Can you imagine him bringing in 7 players in the summer, giving them long term contracts, not knowing how he is going to set the team up. It literally fills me with dread.

Edited by TAPOUT
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26 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I suppose I'm just blindly hoping that Gibson will look beyond a 5 mile radius of Middlesbrough when selecting a new manager. 

I just don't see any benefit of keeping Woodgate at the club anymore, ok it's going to cost us to sack him but how much will relegation cost the club? 

I'm not saying sacking Woodgate will solve everything, the club needs completely overhauling from top to bottom but in the short term we need to avoid relegation and in my opinion I think changing manager is the most likely option of helping us to survive.  

 

Only Buzz Lightyear will do especially with his well know phrase (up. up and away from relegation) or was that someone else?

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27 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I suppose I'm just blindly hoping that Gibson will look beyond a 5 mile radius of Middlesbrough when selecting a new manager. 

I just don't see any benefit of keeping Woodgate at the club anymore, ok it's going to cost us to sack him but how much will relegation cost the club? 

I'm not saying sacking Woodgate will solve everything, the club needs completely overhauling from top to bottom but in the short term we need to avoid relegation and in my opinion I think changing manager is the most likely option of helping us to survive.  

 

Normally I would be in favour of long term thinking. However, in our current situation our absolute top priority needs to be to maintain our Championship status for the end of this season. If that requires a bit of short term thinking and appointing someone like Warnock until the end of the season then so be it. At the same time, we would need to start planning for longer term for what we would be doing from the Summer  - and that would need a plan a for if we stay up and a plan b for if we do not. If we go down, we will plummet further and not come back for a long time.

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I keep checking back every few hours expecting to see he has stepped down. I just don’t see how his position is tenable with fans turning on the team and the players seemingly not playing for him anymore.

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55 minutes ago, TAPOUT said:

Of course, that could happen wilson, this is football. Every managerial appointment is a massive gamble, with most failing to live up to the aspirations of the chairman and fans. That is just the way it is. I have suggested Warnock until the end of the season as I think he would buy us time. If we went for him and offered him a 2 and a half year contract I would be dead against it as it just  perpetuates a system that does not suit what was supposed to be a brave new era. If we accept we are a club that is going to pick up a rough diamond and develop them and potentially Integrate them into a successful side then we need a head coach that can coach. Someone who knows how he wants to play and coaches them to be better, not send them back to their past clubs to let them improve them. This is especially relevant given the rebuild required in the summer. Woodgate has demonstrated that he does not have the focus or ability to coach a player to be better and if things aren’t working his option is to tear it up. Can you imagine him bringing in 7 players in the summer, giving them long term contracts, not knowing how he is going to set the team up. It literally fills me with dread.

This is exactly what I'm talking about though. People will throw the baby out with the bathwater to sack a manager. There are situations which fans absolutely want to avoid in the aftermath of sacking a manager but are still full pelt towards it like that will never happen. It's happened with Karanka, it's happened with Pulis, arguably it happened with Monk too as people started to switch off as soon as Pulis came in. It baffles me beyond belief that people think it will work with sacking Woodgate. People argue about it like it's a logical decision but it isn't, it's a decision based on the belief or hope that things will get better when he's gone and it's really not that simple. Every time someone sacks a manager it is out of belief that things couldn't get any worse and yet they continue to get worse.

It's like when people start going on about bringing in a promising foreign coach. What about our recent past makes anyone think we're about to do that? We had success with one and the club did everything they could to erase him and everything to do with him from the club as soon as it went wrong. It's all perceived as simple though, we just need to get a promising coach, we just need Warnock til the end of the season, we just need to do this or that. Oh ***, we didn't do any of those things, we hired Woodgate, how dreadful a decision that was by the club and now I'm gonna complain about how *** Woodgate is until he's gone. The manager continues to take the brunt of the criticism year on year whilst the club sits back and makes *** decisions one after the other.

We need to be more nuanced than thinking sacking a manager solves your problems or we won't just be stuck in League One. But this is the culture of football; things go wrong, sack the manager, things go wrong again, sack them again. It doesn't work.

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 Not knocking Woodgate for having a go, I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and thought he was on the brink of turning it around with that 4 match run, but sadly we are now not only back to square one but going backwards. When you struggle to get a shot on target against the 2 bottom sides your in big bother. If Woodgate stays in charge then you put the blame squarely on the chairman's shoulders, and I  it can only be purely down to a financial thing, any other club your sacked. Gibson's attitude towards the fans borders on contempt.

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8 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about though. People will throw the baby out with the bathwater to sack a manager. There are situations which fans absolutely want to avoid in the aftermath of sacking a manager but are still full pelt towards it like that will never happen. It's happened with Karanka, it's happened with Pulis, arguably it happened with Monk too as people started to switch off as soon as Pulis came in. It baffles me beyond belief that people think it will work with sacking Woodgate. People argue about it like it's a logical decision but it isn't, it's a decision based on the belief or hope that things will get better when he's gone and it's really not that simple. Every time someone sacks a manager it is out of belief that things couldn't get any worse and yet they continue to get worse.

It's like when people start going on about bringing in a promising foreign coach. What about our recent past makes anyone think we're about to do that? We had success with one and the club did everything they could to erase him and everything to do with him from the club as soon as it went wrong. It's all perceived as simple though, we just need to get a promising coach, we just need Warnock til the end of the season, we just need to do this or that. Oh ***, we didn't do any of those things, we hired Woodgate, how dreadful a decision that was by the club and now I'm gonna complain about how *** Woodgate is until he's gone. The manager continues to take the brunt of the criticism year on year whilst the club sits back and makes *** decisions one after the other.

We need to be more nuanced than thinking sacking a manager solves your problems or we won't just be stuck in League One. But this is the culture of football; things go wrong, sack the manager, things go wrong again, sack them again. It doesn't work.

Well we will have to agree to disagree. Woodgate has not put a baby in the bath water to throw out. Not even an embryo. He has not developed a style of play, settled team or delivered on his vision of a scoring attacking team. His signings have gone back to the clubs they were signed from and he is happy to make the kids scapegoats, despite their energy bailing him out over Christmas. In addition to this according to SDS he has lost the dressing room and theres infighting within the coaching set up. I am not sure how keeping him brings anything positive but its all about opinions I suppose.

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Yes if you bring Warnock in, I'm sure he'd keep us up, but I honestly don't see him coming just to sign a contract till the end of the season to pull us out of the mire, I think he'll want a lot longer contract than that.

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4 minutes ago, TAPOUT said:

Well we will have to agree to disagree. Woodgate has not put a baby in the bath water to throw out. Not even an embryo. He has not developed a style of play, settled team or delivered on his vision of a scoring attacking team. His signings have gone back to the clubs they were signed from and he is happy to make the kids scapegoats, despite their energy bailing him out over Christmas. In addition to this according to SDS he has lost the dressing room and theres infighting within the coaching set up. I am not sure how keeping him brings anything positive but its all about opinions I suppose.

I think that's it in a nutshell.  If there were signs of something being developed then you could see at least some sense in sticking with him but we aren't seeing that at all.  The last few games are perfect examples really, just look at the changes made from game to game.  That's even before you look at the performances and results that came after these changes.

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Whoever we went for as a replacement for Woodgate, I for one would be prepared to bite the bullet of dour football in exchange for safety, and maybe even progress. Yes, football fans are notoriously fickle and impatient, and Boro fans are arguably more fickle and impatient than most, but there is a big difference in this case. When I look back at the roll-call of Boro managers, there have been those who got their approach wrong, fostered uninspiring football, rubbed people up the wrong way or failed for a variety of other reasons. I cannot remember another manager that I would class as downright incompetent, but that's the manager we have now. This may not be the ideal time to change horses, and whoever stepped up might not be able to halt the decline, but I really see no alternative.

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3 minutes ago, TAPOUT said:

Well we will have to agree to disagree. Woodgate has not put a baby in the bath water to throw out. Not even an embryo. He has not developed a style of play, settled team or delivered on his vision of a scoring attacking team. His signings have gone back to the clubs they were signed from and he is happy to make the kids scapegoats, despite their energy bailing him out over Christmas. In addition to this according to SDS he has lost the dressing room and theres infighting within the coaching set up. I am not sure how keeping him brings anything positive but its all about opinions I suppose.

Have to agree with this. I get what @wilsoncgp is saying and generally I would agree with his sentiments but there does come a point where the obvious has to be dealt with. We definitely do not have a squad of players who should be flirting with relegation to League 1. It does look like we have a manager who would probably struggle in League 1. To save our season and preserve our championship status we have to part ways and bring in someone with experience to deliver the goods even in the short term. 
With the amount of players out of contract in the summer we really do need someone who has been there and done that to take the reins to oversee it. I agree with earlier posters that investing in a proven manager should take priority. Chris Hughton for me.

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1 hour ago, Bennyboy137 said:

I keep checking back every few hours expecting to see he has stepped down. I just don’t see how his position is tenable with fans turning on the team and the players seemingly not playing for him anymore.

Much as we would like to see Woodgate leave it won't happen. I believe he would rather stay in charge and take us down than resign, with the " Its been a steep learning curve " crap at the end of the season.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Blanco said:

Have to agree with this. I get what @wilsoncgp is saying and generally I would agree with his sentiments but there does come a point where the obvious has to be dealt with. We definitely do not have a squad of players who should be flirting with relegation to League 1. It does look like we have a manager who would probably struggle in League 1. To save our season and preserve our championship status we have to part ways and bring in someone with experience to deliver the goods even in the short term. 
With the amount of players out of contract in the summer we really do need someone who has been there and done that to take the reins to oversee it. I agree with earlier posters that investing in a proven manager should take priority. Chris Hughton for me.

Are you sure you wouldn’t take Karanka back?

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13 minutes ago, RealSlimSladeyy said:

Are you sure you wouldn’t take Karanka back?

No chance

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