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Steve Gibson's stranglehold on scrutiny?


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What are other people's views on how whether there is sufficient scrutiny on the Club internally and externally such as through the Evening Gazette and BBC Tees?. My post in the "Should Jonathan Woodg

Outstanding post. When Sajid Javid resigned from Government, he said it was necessary to speak truth to power. That applies everywhere, including at MFC. And we can't rely on the usual agents to

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3 hours ago, smogsterking the Inspirati said:

I wonder if we will ever see Gibson attend a fan phone in or a public forum again. He is under mass scrutiny right now, plus more and more fans arent buying into the PR such as the Gazette article above. 

This summer (assuming we avoid relegation) it seems possible that Ben Gibson could be signed and will be seen as a signing to show how ambitious we are as part of this summer's PR. 

After the Leeds game the BBC Tees guy said something along the lines of 'Steve Gibson is always welcome to come on the station to speak to the fans'. Something like that anyway but I sensed that invitations had been made in the past but not taken up.

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10 minutes ago, PsychFur said:

After the Leeds game the BBC Tees guy said something along the lines of 'Steve Gibson is always welcome to come on the station to speak to the fans'. Something like that anyway but I sensed that invitations had been made in the past but not taken up.

I get that impression. I think if he does something it will be a pre recorded interview with the gazette or Tees with carefully prepared questions without really scrutinising his decisions.  

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I've had a bit of a comparison of this season's current position vs last season's finishing position among the teams who finished around us last season. Out of the Championship's top 8 teams who remained within this division last season - after Norwich, Sheffield United & Aston Villa got promoted - 6 of them are still occupying the top 9 places in the Championship this season. That's West Brom (1st), Leeds (2nd), Nottingham Forest (4th), Brentford (5th), Bristol City (7th) & Swansea (9th). The other 2 of them 8 are Derby County who are 13th placed with 48 points, and us in 22nd place with a pathetic 38 points. Considering the problems Derby have had with Keogh, Lawrence & Bennett's drink driving crash, I think their underperformance is more understandable than ours as it has been the result of factors beyond Cocu's control.

I think what that comparison reinforces is that Woodgate had a very good squad which he was taking over. Fair enough, Flint. Mikel and Downing among others left but we still had the spine of a very good squad to build around, and any competent manager would never have us in 22nd position from 7th position the previous season.

Has there ever been a manager who has taken over a club in the Championship that had finished the previous season in 7th place or above, and then got them relegated to League One and kept their job?. If there's a stats guy out there I'd love to know?.

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On 2/28/2020 at 5:32 PM, p_mards said:

What are other people's views on how whether there is sufficient scrutiny on the Club internally and externally such as through the Evening Gazette and BBC Tees?. My post in the "Should Jonathan Woodgate be sacked?" thread generated discussion so maybe it's worthy of its own thread. I'll get the ball rolling below by adding a few more points.

Externally, I think it's pretty much a dictatorship with the Club's treatment of the Evening Gazette and BBC Tees over the years. We're teetering on the brink of relegation to League One after the appointment of Woodgate backfired as expected and is still in a job, yet there seems to have been next to no meaningful scrutiny. Based upon the clear imbalance between the squad at Woodgate's disposal vs our league position, we should be nowhere near the relegation zone. We're only here through sheer incompetence to 1.) appoint a useless manager and head of recruitment, and 2.) to continue to employ that useless manager (head of recruitment did the right thing and resigned - credit to Bevington for that). I completely don't blame the Evening Gazette sports team for their lack of scrutiny as they've got their hands tied behind their backs. They got their hands scolded after relegation from the Premier League when they became too critical of the team and undoubtedly have budget pressures so have to fall in line with the club as they simply can't afford to fall out with the Club. MFC had the power to bully the Evening Gazette into submission, but it shouldn't do so just because it has the power to. It's dirty tactics which reduces my opinion of Steve Gibson dramatically. Similarly, MFC having the BBC Tees Neil Maddison on the payroll is a massive conflict of interest, so he's never going to be impartial. Notably, Bernie Slaven was sacked from that role because he was too outspoken against MFC's failures. It's so obviously tainted.

Internally, the sound music from Pulis and Woodgate seems to be one of complacency as they have reassured us countless times that there are good policies now in place behind the scenes and that Steve Gibson knows what he is doing. We've heard lots of propaganda for years about "smashing the league", "the golden thread", how we've totally rejuvenated the recruitment policies etc. However, nothing has improved, and instead things have slowly and gradually got worse ever since Gibson regained full power during that messy January 2017 window. From the outside looking in, it seems like Gibson surrounds himself with "yes men" who aren't fit for their jobs, as emphasised by the appointments of Bevington and Woodgate. Given that culture, I can't imagine someone internal who scrutinised Gibson and co's decisions being particularly welcomed behind the scenes. I'm imagining they'd be sacked and thrown under the bus just how Karanka and Orta were after relegation from the Premier League. He took it to an unprofessional level with them personal attacks. It's from the political handbook of dirty tricks. I think Gibson should be absolutely ashamed of himself for doing that to a manager who got us promoted. Common decency and appreciation of his achievements with us should have prevailed. Again, just because you have the power to do something, it doesn't mean you should do it.

In my opinion, the lack of scrutiny internally and externally is contributing to the malaise that has maligned the club for the vast majority of the past decade. It makes me even less confident about our ability to turn things around. In the absence of genuine scrutiny from the local media, fans dismay can only be contained for so long. Before Gibson knows it he's going to come under some well deserved criticism when PR can't paper over the cracks any longer such as if we end up in League One. Maybe only then will he stop burying his head into the sand at any sort of scrutiny.

This is undoubtedly the best informative and balanced post I can remember reading

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1 hour ago, p_mards said:

I've had a bit of a comparison of this season's current position vs last season's finishing position among the teams who finished around us last season. Out of the Championship's top 8 teams who remained within this division last season - after Norwich, Sheffield United & Aston Villa got promoted - 6 of them are still occupying the top 9 places in the Championship this season. That's West Brom (1st), Leeds (2nd), Nottingham Forest (4th), Brentford (5th), Bristol City (7th) & Swansea (9th). The other 2 of them 8 are Derby County who are 13th placed with 48 points, and us in 22nd place with a pathetic 38 points. Considering the problems Derby have had with Keogh, Lawrence & Bennett's drink driving crash, I think their underperformance is more understandable than ours as it has been the result of factors beyond Cocu's control.

I think what that comparison reinforces is that Woodgate had a very good squad which he was taking over. Fair enough, Flint. Mikel and Downing among others left but we still had the spine of a very good squad to build around, and any competent manager would never have us in 22nd position from 7th position the previous season.

Has there ever been a manager who has taken over a club in the Championship that had finished the previous season in 7th place or above, and then got them relegated to League One and kept their job?. If there's a stats guy out there I'd love to know?.

To put things in perspective based on data for Premier and Football League since 1992 the average win % for a manager to be sacked is 29.42%.

Woodgate is at 20% and out of a total of 39 games was not able to win in 31 games.

 

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1 hour ago, Ayresome7 said:

To put things in perspective based on data for Premier and Football League since 1992 the average win % for a manager to be sacked is 29.42%.

Woodgate is at 20% and out of a total of 39 games was not able to win in 31 games.

 

What is our lowest win % for a permanent manager? 

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2 minutes ago, Ayresome7 said:

Steve Agnew was 9% for 11 games, Murdoch 17% for 54 and Maddren 22% for 77.

 

Thanks. Agnew was only caretaker manager, not permanent, so he doesn't count.  Based on those statistics Woody currently has the second worst win percentage out of permanent Boro managers...

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My personal opinion is we need new investment and a new direction. As good as Gibbo has been, every dog has his day and my head says Gibbo has had his.

I think if things stay as they are, we are destined to be a league 1 team. This is just my gut feel on the personal "infrastructure" Gibbo has ultimately created.

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Garry Monk's transfer business in the Summer of 2017 set us back 2 or 3 years according to the Evening Gibson:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tony-pulis-garry-monks-disastrous-17862203

It's beyond doubt that it caused us long term financial pressure, but it doesn't excuse Woodgate's underperformance. There's no direct criticism of anyone other than Garry Monk though. Look, look, it was all Monk's fault!. Lets all boo him!. Just look how terrible his gelled hair is!.

There's no scrutiny of why Gibson authorised such a reckless transfer spend. I'm especially baffled about why we spent £21.5 million on Assombalonga and Fletcher when we already had a superior striker, Patrick Bamford, here who we then had to sell 12 months later due to us needing to clear up the financial mess that the reckless 2017 spend caused.

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Pulis is quite right about some of Monk's signings being poor, yes  its a pity Monk didn't have the sense like Pulis,  to buy quality bargain buy players like George Saville and Aden Flint, and bring a class striker in on loan like Hugill, he may well have kept his job.

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On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 8:40 PM, White Band said:

Thanks. Agnew was only caretaker manager, not permanent, so he doesn't count.  Based on those statistics Woody currently has the second worst win percentage out of permanent Boro managers...

Your right Agnew doesn't count at all, we'd have had more success putting one of the ball boys in charge. 

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27 minutes ago, p_mards said:

Garry Monk's transfer business in the Summer of 2017 set us back 2 or 3 years according to the Evening Gibson:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tony-pulis-garry-monks-disastrous-17862203

It's beyond doubt that it caused us long term financial pressure, but it doesn't excuse Woodgate's underperformance. There's no direct criticism of anyone other than Garry Monk though. Look, look, it was all Monk's fault!. Lets all boo him!. Just look how terrible his gelled hair is!.

There's no scrutiny of why Gibson authorised such a reckless transfer spend. I'm especially baffled about why we spent £21.5 million on Assombalonga and Fletcher when we already had a superior striker, Patrick Bamford, here who we then had to sell 12 months later due to us needing to clear up the financial mess that the reckless 2017 spend caused.

We also had Stuani, don’t forget. 

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