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OzzyPorter

Who was the last manager we had that improved our players?

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Hi Gents

I'm not talking about improving one or two here I'm talking about improving 5,6,7 and more. I cant think of a manager who has come in and done that since Rioch. Surely that is one of the most important attributes to consider when deciding upon a new manager? It would be interesting to know exactly what Steve Gibson looks for in a manager because he hasn't picked a good one yet!

I would love to get a manager in who can improve players and harness the talents of the squad and create a fluid team that has a well defined structure whereby each player knows exactly what to do and where they should be in any given situation. Of course, creating a team like this requires time and patience but you look at teams such as Brentford and wonder why they can do it with a fraction of the resources.

Gibson needs help with regards to footballing matters because he is destroying this club and wasting millions of his own money in the process.

Director of football anyone?

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Karanka.

 

We saw huge improvements from Friend, Leadbitter, Clayton (he was signed but elevated his game way above where it was before he signed for us), Dimi, Ayala (granted he hadn’t been here long, but he hasn’t been as good since Karanka), Gibson and I’m sure there’s others I’m missing.

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Noooooooooooo! 

Karanka turned every player into a negative, defensive robot. There was no balance whatsoever.

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1 minute ago, OzzyPorter said:

Noooooooooooo! 

Karanka turned every player into a negative, defensive robot. There was no balance whatsoever.

Lol

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There was enough balance to get us promoted!

Anyway, your question was about improvement, not attacking flair. Karanka improved a moribund squad and had it sitting 13th in the PL til Ramirez started dangling his *** on the internet. 

Before Aitor? Hmm. Robbo pulled some career-best performances from people like Stampy,  so probably him.

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My question was about improving individual players but not only a handful. Pulis improved Traore immensely but I wouldn't say he was the type of manager who improved a high % of his players. A great example of a manager who does this is Chris Wilder at Sheff Utd.

Karanka improved defensive players. He was utterly clueless when it came to improving attacking attributes of his players.

We never seem to look for managers like Wilder for some reason and it tells me that Gibson just does not understand the game at all. He is a fan just like us, an amateur. Is it any wonder he keeps getting decisions wrong?

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4 minutes ago, OzzyPorter said:

My question was about improving individual players but not only a handful. Pulis improved Traore immensely but I wouldn't say he was the type of manager who improved a high % of his players. A great example of a manager who does this is Chris Wilder at Sheff Utd.

Karanka improved defensive players. He was utterly clueless when it came to improving attacking attributes of his players.

We never seem to look for managers like Wilder for some reason and it tells me that Gibson just does not understand the game at all. He is a fan just like us, an amateur. Is it any wonder he keeps getting decisions wrong?

You said you were looking for names that have improved ‘5, 6, 7 or more players’ and I named 6 players that Karanka had a massively positive impact on. You can add Nsue to that list as he was a complete nobody before he came to us.

 

You can’t argue that Karanka didn’t have a very positive impact on the players that we had when he came in, improving a large proportion of them.

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Quite honestly I can't think of any...going all the way back to Lennie Lawrence.

Admittedly my memory is dodgy at the best of times, but as best as I can recall, we've only ever brought players in who played to their pre-Boro levels, or actually got worse.

Slightly different for the academy lads who made it to the first team. They usually improved to a point, then began to deteriorate...or were snapped up by a bigger club, while performing at their peak for us.

To the best of my recollection, we've never had a manager or coaching staff who noticeably improved our players. Even under Robson or McLaren. Yes, we had arguably the best managers and coaches of recent times...but we also had better players, who probably didn't need as much coaching.

 

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm talking total *** though.

 

Just to qualify this, we've obviously had managers who were better at setting us up in certain ways and getting the maximum out of the squads they had. But as far as actually improving our players, be it physically, technically, psychologically...I stand by what I said above.

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@Will. Totally agree with your list. I would also add Bamford to that list. Think his best career season came under Karanka. I also don't think Tomlin has replicated the form any at club he been at since he showed the form he did under Karanka. 

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11 minutes ago, Will said:

You said you were looking for names that have improved ‘5, 6, 7 or more players’ and I named 6 players that Karanka had a massively positive impact on. You can add Nsue to that list as he was a complete nobody before he came to us.

 

You can’t argue that Karanka didn’t have a very positive impact on the players that we had when he came in, improving a large proportion of them.

I don't agree with all the players you named for a start and I don't agree with Nsue. Karanka was excellent at putting a team out on the pitch that was ultra defensive and very hard to score against. Nothing wrong with that but he did not improve his players. His tactical approach made those players look defensively good.

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12 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Quite honestly I can't think of any...going all the way back to Lennie Lawrence.

Admittedly my memory is dodgy at the best of times, but as best as I can recall, we've only ever brought players in who played to their pre-Boro levels, or actually got worse.

Slightly different for the academy lads who made it to the first team. They usually improved to a point, then began to deteriorate...or were snapped up by a bigger club, while performing at their peak for us.

To the best of my recollection, we've never had a manager or coaching staff who noticeably improved our players. Even under Robson or McLaren. Yes, we had arguably the best managers and coaches of recent times...but we also had better players, who probably didn't need as much coaching.

 

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm talking total *** though.

 

Just to qualify this, we've obviously had managers who were better at setting us up in certain ways and getting the maximum out of the squads they had. But as far as actually improving our players, be it physically, technically, psychologically...I stand by what I said above.

I have to agree with you. Lawrence turned some average players into good 2nd division players and more. Maybe not as many as Rioch but he still had an impressive track record.

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I’d have to agree with Will, AK really managed to improve a lot of our players, I’m sure that if he came back, he’d do it again. 

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56 minutes ago, OzzyPorter said:

Noooooooooooo! 

Karanka turned every player into a negative, defensive robot. There was no balance whatsoever.

It’s called improving them tactically through coaching. It’s something our team at the moment lacks it in massive amounts. It’s the bread and butter stuff of being a good manager.

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15 minutes ago, TLF10 said:

@Will. Totally agree with your list. I would also add Bamford to that list. Think his best career season came under Karanka. I also don't think Tomlin has replicated the form any at club he been at since he showed the form he did under Karanka. 

Tomlin is having an excellent season at Cardiff now.

25 games, 7 goals and 7 assists.

Played 50 games in 14/15 and got 10 goals, 11 assists.

 Could argue he's in better form this season, if not for injury.

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1 hour ago, Will said:

Karanka.

 

We saw huge improvements from Friend, Leadbitter, Clayton (he was signed but elevated his game way above where it was before he signed for us), Dimi, Ayala (granted he hadn’t been here long, but he hasn’t been as good since Karanka), Gibson and I’m sure there’s others I’m missing.

Josef Varga a midfielder who played at right back and actually looked pretty good there! I agree with the rest of your list. 

Ramirez got better and better in the Championship under Karanka, I'm sure some of that was just down to fitness but Karanka got the best out of him for a while. 

I know some people don't like Karanka but to say he didn't improve players is just nonsense. 

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