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Who was the last manager we had that improved our players?

 

By OzzyPorter,
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Overwhelmingly Karanka. I think you look at the squad and the majority of those players were arguably playing the best football of their careers under him. Clayton, Ayala, Dimi, Gibson, Bamford, Tomli

 

Josef Varga a midfielder who played at right back and actually looked pretty good there! I agree with the rest of your list.  Ramirez got better and better in the Championship under Karanka, I'm

 

Sorry but if you can’t see that 14-17 Adam Clayton was significantly better than the one who had spent his career in mid table mediocrity then there’s really no point discussing it further.

 

AnglianRed 6,320

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26 minutes ago, RealSlimSladeyy said:

How do you draw the line between saying his tactics made the players looks good defensively versus he improved the players defensively? 

I think the line is the players' inherent ability - physically, technically, their ability to read the game and make good decisions...

Versus simply being drilled by the manager to do what he thinks is necessary to win games.

 

IMO Karanka's success was down to his ability to drill our players, getting them to follow his instructions, rather than making them better players per se.

If you want further proof - just look at how shambolic they got after he left.

 

I'd liken it to teaching someone to drive and making them able to drive by themselves, reading the road, controlling the car and making decisions by themselves, versus having the instructor in the car with them all the time, telling them what to do.

 

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Denzel Zanzibar 6,972

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1 minute ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

......,and weatnerspoons breakfaster....

Oh god no, I wouldn't touch a Wetherspoon's breakfast with a bargepole.

Though they do often have some decent guest ales on. Shame the owner is a massively xenophobic Brexiteering ***.

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GrimsbyBoro 1,968

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I think Karanka covered people's weaknesses up with the style and system he played. He got the very best out of them and along the way made them better players at playing his style.

Ben Gibson didn't look half the defender in the premier league when Agnew tried to make us less defensive and has gone from the verge of the England squad to Burnley forgotten man.

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OzzyPorter 44

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I would just like to make a small point about differentiating between improving players and improving how effective they are in their assigned roles.

Did Karanka improve all those defenders and players such as Clayton? I'm not so sure. The formation he used with at least one of not two holding midfielders in front of the back four ensured that, for the most part, our central defenders were not troubled.

As an example, Ben Gibson was an absolute rock and was tipped for big things. Look at him now. A classic case of a player being made to look better than they were due to being protected. Ayala was the same as was Dimi. Look at Clayton. He had every attacking instinct drilled out of him and as soon as Karanka left he has been a nothing player because he has been ruined and can only play an ultra negative holding role. It's no good just concentrating on developing defensive attributes because you eventually get found out just like we did in the PL. Karanka was too rigid and one dimensional in terms of his coaching and management.

Somebody offered Bamford as an example of him improving attackers. He scored 12 in 38 apps for us which is OK I suppose. Just for the record he got 8 in 21 apps for Steve mcclaren at Derby the season before.  In terms of goalscoring he was actually regressing.

I'm not anti Karanka. He did a terrific job and was percent for a team trying to get promoted from the championship. Did he improve players? Not a chance. 

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AnglianRed 6,320

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3 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Oh god no, I wouldn't touch a Wetherspoon's breakfast with a bargepole.

Though they do often have some decent guest ales on. Shame the owner is a massively xenophobic Brexiteering ***.

Just a couple of points:

1. Being pro-Brexit doesn't make you xenophobic

2. Its happened already...

let it go GIF

 

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OzzyPorter 44

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2 minutes ago, OzzyPorter said:

I would just like to make a small point about differentiating between improving players and improving how effective they are in their assigned roles.

Did Karanka improve all those defenders and players such as Clayton? Not for me. The formation he used with at least one if not two holding midfielders in front of the back four ensured that, for the most part, our central defenders were not troubled.

As an example, Ben Gibson was an absolute rock and was tipped for big things. Look at him now. A classic case of a player being made to look better than they were due to being protected. Ayala was the same as was Dimi. Look at Clayton. He had every attacking instinct drilled out of him and as soon as Karanka left he has been a nothing player because he has been ruined and can only play an ultra negative holding role. It's no good just concentrating on developing defensive attributes because you eventually get found out just like we did in the PL. Karanka was too rigid and one dimensional in terms of his coaching and management.

Somebody offered Bamford as an example of him improving attackers. He scored 12 in 38 apps for us which is OK I suppose. Just for the record he got 8 in 21 apps for Steve mcclaren at Derby the season before.  In terms of goalscoring he was actually regressing.

I'm not anti Karanka. He did a terrific job and was percent for a team trying to get promoted from the championship. Did he improve players? Not a chance. 

 

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OzzyPorter 44

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9 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

I think the line is the players' inherent ability - physically, technically, their ability to read the game and make good decisions...

Versus simply being drilled by the manager to do what he thinks is necessary to win games.

 

IMO Karanka's success was down to his ability to drill our players, getting them to follow his instructions, rather than making them better players per se.

If you want further proof - just look at how shambolic they got after he left.

 

I'd liken it to teaching someone to drive and making them able to drive by themselves, reading the road, controlling the car and making decisions by themselves, versus having the instructor in the car with them all the time, telling them what to do.

 

You explained it much better than I  did. Cracking post.

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