Boro v Charlton (A) 1-0 (McNair)

[Downsouth 6,326]

No-one can deny that the whole Gestede escapade has at times been repugnant and rotten to the core and possibly will go down as the worst signing in living memory for value purposes.

He is off, soon to be forgotten, pastures new and all that but if he is willing to carry on performing well than for our own sakes I am more than happy because MFC and fans are bigger than the individual.

Ok never going to have fond memories of the man but if he scored the goal that ensured our survival (this season) I will say under my breath "thank you" whilst raving like a lunatic due to what the goal meant.

This team whoever plays has to have the backing and support of the fans in these closing stages even if they do not deserve it.  

[Redcar Rioja 5,974]

7 hours ago, TLF10 said:

If you think that is the reason Rudy has been given a hard time then you are very badly mistaken. It is not even close to the reason.

The abuse he has got has definitely been unjustified when compared to others and some of it has got very personal.

And the incident you are referring to from his Blackburn days is where he was allegedly racially abused. Now i accept the boro fan gave an innocent explanation for that but Rudy at time had every right to think it was racist. The fact that the police and CPS bought a case against the boro fan tells us that.

Some of our fans even celebrated when Rudy got injured. Thankfully them fans are in minority but why you would ever celebrate another human being suffering a misfortune, never mind it being one of your own players is beyond me.

Oh and btw Rudy, despite last 2 or so months, has been a total flop when you look at fee paid, wages paid and his contribution. He will go down as one of our worst signings unless something drastic happens in last 9 games. However I will never boo or abuse the lad because despite the above he has never once criticised the club or the fans and his failings have never been due to a lack of effort on his part imo. 

I remember that game very well for all the wrong reasons and the vitriol that existed at the final whistle in the stands for the Ref allowing the goal and then the Blackburn Players celebrating like they had just won the Champions League in a totally over the top manner. Under the circumstances it was ill advised. The abuse coming from just the North Stand were I was sat was far worse (none of it racist) than a pensioner giving the pits sign, there were hundreds gesticulating with two fingers and other hand gestures. For those who thought he was being racist I struggled to see it at the time (unless he had one limb perhaps). It didn't take a genius to have even a modicum of doubt as to why the gesture wasn't the normal two armed universal obnoxious gesture but the Pensioner was weak, easily bullied and intimidated by the Club, Cleveland Constabulary as well as millionaire Footballers. That their players noticed one Boro fan when they were (or should have been) focusing on their own fans shows what was going on in their minds at the time. They were gloating and goading in equal measure, it was the game that had tensions so high both on and off the pitch at the end it finished Higgy's tenure on the coaching side. Meanwhile I must have missed his commitment to the Boro up until these last two games when he has played very well, conveniently the timing suits his personal needs in seeking a new contract, hopefully elsewhere. 

[Changing Times 12,338]

1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

Not to mention our continuing habit of sitting back and letting teams come at us in the last 10-15 minutes of games. I wonder if CT has any stats for late goals conceded (in the last 10 minutes of games). Would be interested to know where Boro rate there.

 

I don't think our conceding goals late in games is all that bad to be honest.  Somebody mentioned it yesterday and just from memory I couldn't think of that that many.  Having had a look through just now, we've conceded 8 goals in the final 10 minutes of games (plus any injury time).  By way of a random comparison I looked at Preston, Derby and Wigan and we are no worse than any of them.  Preston have conceded 8 like we have, Derby have conceded 9 and Wigan have conceded 13.

Where there is some difference though is in the effect of these goals.  The 8 goals we conceded lead to us losing 2 games, drawing 5 from a winning position and losing 1 that we were already losing.  You could say that those goals cost us 12 points.  For Preston that figure was only 6 points and for Derby and Wigan it was 9 points, if I've added it up correctly!  Essentially, every late goal we've conceded barring the one at Derby has cost us in some way.  Wigan and Derby conceded late in some games that they'd already lost and in Wigan's case they actually conceded twice in the final 10 mins of two games to lose both of them...ouch!

The issue for me is the goals we've scored or rather the goals we haven't scored.  That's what puts us under pressure as we can't pull away from teams and put games safe - the same thing happened yesterday and even in the home game against Charlton.  We should have won both by more than one goal but we couldn't score more than once so that was that.  Our defensive record stands out more because our goal scoring record is so bad in my opinion. 

The median value of goals scored in the Championship so far is 48.5 and we've only scored 37.  If you gave us 12 more goals this season we'd be comfortably higher up the league - we've only lost 4 games by two or more goals this season.  So give us 12 goals spread out across any of our games at random and we'd have a minimum of 8 more points and be at least up in 14th place.  If some of those goals came in games we drew then we'd have even more points of course so we could be even higher.  I understand that this is no more than hypothetical but I'm trying to show the damage our lack of goals has done to us in comparison to our defensive record.  Our defensive record is actually two goals better than the median value, it's average but that is still average, even if that is worse than where we've been previously.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Changing Times

[Changing Times 12,338]

41 minutes ago, BoroMart said:

he is slow turning, but straight line speed is decent enough compared to Ayala, Shotton, Moukoudi

Yeah, I thought the same, maybe not the best acceleration but when he gets going he looks pretty quick to me.

[Changing Times 12,338]

33 minutes ago, BoroMart said:

We're a defensive team that has an 'average' record at goals conceded....that's poor.

I don't think we are a defensive team this season.  Certainly not in comparison to previous seasons.

[Changing Times 12,338]

27 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

He scored one more goal probably because in one month at the start of last season, when he was clearly playing for nothing more than a move away, he showed he could contribute even in a Pulis team. But following that, he didn't. Thus there's no question about Braithwaite's lack of commitment. I'd say at the very least, Gestede is not even close to that kind of statement. So why, in comparing the kind of abuse both have had as Boro players, Gestede stands out as a 'donkey', I have no idea.

For the record following your other post, I remember Gestede's game against Crewe earlier this season when he wasn't all there. So perhaps his commitment is somewhat in question. I mean, if we go through this squad as a whole, I think we'll find very few candidates who have wholly clean records when it comes to giving their all on the pitch every minute they spend on it. Relatively speaking though, how we can even consider Gestede's commitment when shotting abuse his way is beyond me.

Because the Crewe game isn't the only time he's played/looked like that.  Gestede has been a far worse signing than Braithwaite, even if Braithwaite is a nobhead.

[BoroMart 139]

17 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I don't think we are a defensive team this season.  Certainly not in comparison to previous seasons.

I don't see us committing players high up the pitch with or without the ball. We have played high wing backs, but then we've played 3 largely industrial CM when we do that, so it negates. I'd say we are 5% more adventurous and attacking, with little return, and with a 10-15% drop in our defensive performance. As a finger in the air guestimate.

If we are looking long term to change to this high press, we have to play with a high defensive line otherwise we leave ourselves open if they escape the press. I think one of the reasons we maybe won't re-sign Ayala is that he is far better at playing a deep defensive line and battling. Moukoudi is quicker than Ayala, which is why we are doing a try before we buy

[BoroMart 139]

20 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Because the Crewe game isn't the only time he's played/looked like that.  Gestede has been a far worse signing than Braithwaite, even if Braithwaite is a nobhead.

lets be honest Braithwaite, Mido, Britt, Gestede, most of our big money CF signings have been a complete waste of money.

[Changing Times 12,338]

17 minutes ago, BoroMart said:

lets be honest Braithwaite, Mido, Britt, Gestede, most of our big money CF signings have been a complete waste of money.

Stick Alves on there as well.  It's a horror show 😱😭

[BoroSmoggie 2,708]

Just now, Changing Times said:

Stick Alves on there as well.  It's a horror show 😱😭

And Fletcher 

[mendieta420 1,006]

I think we concede late because of nerves and also the lads usually look completely knackered..

[TLF10 4,490]

1 hour ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I remember that game very well for all the wrong reasons and the vitriol that existed at the final whistle in the stands for the Ref allowing the goal and then the Blackburn Players celebrating like they had just won the Champions League in a totally over the top manner. Under the circumstances it was ill advised. The abuse coming from just the North Stand were I was sat was far worse (none of it racist) than a pensioner giving the pits sign, there were hundreds gesticulating with two fingers and other hand gestures. For those who thought he was being racist I struggled to see it at the time (unless he had one limb perhaps). It didn't take a genius to have even a modicum of doubt as to why the gesture wasn't the normal two armed universal obnoxious gesture but the Pensioner was weak, easily bullied and intimidated by the Club, Cleveland Constabulary as well as millionaire Footballers. That their players noticed one Boro fan when they were (or should have been) focusing on their own fans shows what was going on in their minds at the time. They were gloating and goading in equal measure, it was the game that had tensions so high both on and off the pitch at the end it finished Higgy's tenure on the coaching side. Meanwhile I must have missed his commitment to the Boro up until these last two games when he has played very well, conveniently the timing suits his personal needs in seeking a new contract, hopefully elsewhere. 

I think its best we leave this topic here. I am more than happy to talk about Rudy but your subsequent reply seems to about wanting to discuss the alleged unfair treatment of a fan who was taken to court over racism. 

If my memory serves me right that fan was from redcar and your username suggests you are too so not sure if you got a personal link to that particular fan. Nonetheless i dont think this forum is the place to discuss an alleged case of racism from over 5yrs ago. 

[Rioch's Braves 711]

1 hour ago, BoroMart said:

lets be honest Braithwaite, Mido, Britt, Gestede, most of our big money CF signings have been a complete waste of money.

Yes we're champions league when it comes to wasting money on strikers.nobody does it better.

[Brunners 7,981]

4 hours ago, Downsouth said:

As mentioned let's all be pleased that we just might get a Gestede working hard for whatever reasons and simply get the best of him in the meantime.

Question to all? Based on recent performances does he deserve to keep his place?

Simple yes or no, no need for your reasons and all of the palaver associated with him.

For me Yes

 

Of course, we've looked relatively decent playing around his strengths in the last two.

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

2 hours ago, Changing Times said:

Stick Alves on there as well.  It's a horror show 😱😭

Don't you mean 'The Goal Machine'?